Downside of no center and setting avr to phantom center

[airnmol]

i believe my center channel either in the receiver or the speaker itself is having some problems, so i was told to set the avr to phantom the center, now i would like to know if i will lose sound clarity or distinction by doing this, mainly because i COULD use my once center speaker as a 6.1 speaker now, or would i lose to much up front to be happy with the setup? Any opinions or info please would be grateful.

 

[Adam]

Some people have written that they prefer to not have a center channel, and others prefer to have a center channel. The very best way to find out is to just try it yourself in your system. It's very easy to set that option in the receiver's menu, and you don't need to disconnect anything to try it out. If you have any questions about how to do it, just let us know.

 

[jvgillow]

Some receivers may forcibly enable dynamic range compression when playing Dolby Digital material with a phantom center (due to the necessary down-mixing). You will have to do a listening comparison to tell for sure.

 

[airnmol]

Adam: thanks for the input, so it's mainly just down to preference. i just didn't know by running vocals thru surr front LR that it would take away from the shifting of sounds, explosion, gun fire etc. I have already set my avr to turn off my center, if i like it this way then i will use my center channel speaker as a 6.1. Any problems i might run into using this speaker for a surround? Shouldn't be any sound issues right?

 

[j_garcia]

If you don't calibrate correctly, your sound will be pulled more to the rear of the room with a setup like this IMO.

 

[airnmol]

hmm i don't see how, i am just simply making my 5.1 to a 6.1 by phantoming the center, and putting the speaker in the rear, then hooking up that speaker to my avr in the 6.1 speaker spot, which should only send 6.1 signals not vocals right?

 

[Matt34]

Your center channel is where the majority of information comes from. I think your giving up more than your gaining by moving to a rear surround channel.

hmm i don't see how, i am just simply making my 5.1 to a 6.1 by phantoming the center, and putting the speaker in the rear, then hooking up that speaker to my avr in the 6.1 speaker spot, which should only send 6.1 signals not vocals right?

 

[j_garcia]

hmm i don't see how, i am just simply making my 5.1 to a 6.1 by phantoming the center, and putting the speaker in the rear, then hooking up that speaker to my avr in the 6.1 speaker spot, which should only send 6.1 signals not vocals right?

What I mean is, if you don't set your levels correctly, the sound may be unbalanced toward the rear of the room.

I agree with Matt, I am one of those people who feel that the center is a key part of your sound up front. Phantom works, but doesn't sound better or even as good IMO.

 

[jostenmeat]

I believe the ideal is to have a center speaker too, and I have one, but I have heard systems improve when run in phantom.

It's too hard to say it's better or worse, straight up. The first response here already nailed it: You gotta try and see for yourself.

The reason why I think certain setups work better without a center speaker is because their center speaker really sucked, at least when functioning in a horizontal manner. Then sometimes it is placed on a resonant cabinet, perhaps shoved in between shelving, and the whole hodgepodge of reflections, resonances, diffractions, and lobing could be avoided with phantom. It just depends on the setup in the end I think.

 

[airnmol]

i have always agree with having a center speaker, right now i'm having issues that have caused me to phantom my center to try and narrow the problem. I will be watching tv or bluray and all vocals with all of sudden be muted like someone hit a mute button or and add a slight echo,but yet all other sound is not effected background noise is fine, only vocals. So i posted in the avr area, and they suggested to phantom and see if it's the avr or speaker it'self or my connection. I am using optical for all sound with my directv hd and ps3 to my reciever, my avr uses hdmi but only passes it thru to tv no sound from the cables is input. The problem doesn't always happen, so that makes it even more weird. so far with the center phantomed no problems, but it's only been a day. I think it's my avr cutting out vocal channel somehow but no one knows. Hope this helps explain my logic with phantoming, might be my only option.

 

[JerryLove]

I'm in the group that thinks that, in some rooms, a phantom center works better than a real one (my guess is it's related to how close the speakers are to one another).

Obviously, for the purpose of testing the problem, it was the appropriate choice. If the voice problem has gone away, and remains so, we'll do our best to make suggestions on how to get a working center back in place should you desire to.

But I and others can argue back and forth on what should be better. All that matters is which you prefer. You've now had a chance to hear both.

 

[JerryLove]

Since I've been PM'd with more questions: I'll repeat my response here.

Replace your center speaker and the wire running to it with one of the surrounds. Re-enable center and test. If the problem is still gone, then it was the speaker or the wire. If not, it's the receiver: get it repaired or replaced.

If it was the speaker or the wire, try switching back to your old center speaker leaving the new wire. If the problem reappears, it's the center: repair or replace it. If not, it was the wire: run a new one to reattach your surround.

 

[airnmol]

Sorry for bothering some of you with my questions, this is the only place where i thought i could get helpful friendly tips or answers. I will try everything ppl have told me to try. thanks.

 

[JerryLove]

No bother. That's why we post here. But the discussion here lets everyone learn and comment (which PM does not). For me at least: please *either* PM or discuss in the thread (all else being equal: discuss in thread). Not both.

 

[Unclepauly]

Some receivers may forcibly enable dynamic range compression when playing Dolby Digital material with a phantom center (due to the necessary down-mixing). You will have to do a listening comparison to tell for sure.

+1, if this happens you will have decreased sound quality

 

[j_garcia]

I generally recommend turning off ALL unnecessary processing too. Make sure you are set to AUTO and see what it chooses for the audio. If it is choosing the wrong thing, that could cause it to sound wrong. You can also "force" a particular mode for a given input usually and this may not be the best for all audio selections - example: If you choose something like DPLIIz and you haven't configured the center channel options, it might sound like the center is lower or more spread out to the mains, but in DD it will sound fine because it isn't reprocessing it and it actually has center channel information to work with.

What sources are we talking about here? If a BD or DVD player, is it set to Bitstream or PCM?

 

[airnmol]

should be set to bitstream right? Pretty sure that's what it is set to if not what is the best choice, for blu ray, ps3 games and Directv HD. I would like to post a pic of my setup but it's over the limit, how do you downsize it? Well i'll just explain got flat entertainment center w/ 50'' plasma in corner, center is on tv pedalstal, and LR front are mounted right next to plasma on either side. Two subs one in corner, and the other facing foward next to whole setup.

 

[j_garcia]

should be set to bitstream right? Pretty sure that's what it is set to if not what is the best choice, for blu ray, ps3 games and Directv HD.

Yes, typically should be bitstream to allow the receiver to process it.

 

[3db]

I think it would depend on the receiver's ability to provde a decent phantom center, the quality of your left and right mains and the listening position.

If your lisyening position is straight on to the display, the receiver's ability to provide a good phantom center, and th eleft and the right speakers image really well, I see no reason not to try what you want to do. Alot of people insist on the importance of a good cenetr channel but in my set-up and restricting the listening positon to more or less straight ahead, I saw no benefit in the center channel. Thansk to you, I may try what you are trying to do just for fun.

 

[airnmol]

i'd like to post a pic of my setup but it's over the 100 limit, how do i post a pic? 3DB: My main listening position is straight on, a lazy chair, my rear LR are in the corners facing my main spot, and if i phantom i would put that speaker in oposite corner of the TV. my room is long and somewhat skinny 12x20. Still haven't decided if i prefer a center or phantom. If i understand you right you phantom yours do to room constraints. I think my Front LR are so close to TV that i might not notice no center as much as i thought.