Don't know what to get for my new 54" Viera

[BobD]

We just bought a nice 54" Panasonic Viera Plasm HD/3D tv. It looks GREAT but the sound does not live up to the picture. It also has a nasty buzz when any low frequency sounds are emitted from the speakers. So I need to get some kind of sound system for this thing.

Originally I was thinking soundbar but I hear mixed reviews about them. I listened to the Bose Cinemate and while the setup is really all I need it sounded like crap. I wish Klipsch had a similar system.

Anyway, this is all leading me down the path to a 3.1 or possibly full surround sound system. The Bose system costs $800 and I don't think I wanna spend too much more than that amount. I already have a pair of Cambridge Soundworks Newton Series M80 speakers. They are 3 way with an 8" woofer. Not sure I want to use those because they could just stay with the Yamaha RX-777 stereo receiver in the other living room.

Also, I'm wired for outside speakers on the deck so I would want a receiver that could run those in addition to the 3.1 or full surround sound.

Can this be done for around 800 and please offer your suggestions.

Only other bit of info is that I'm partial to Klipsch.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[sholling]

A 3.1 can be done and sound good but it won't have a pretty look. 3x Behringer B2030P bookshelf studio monitors for roughly $200 shipped. They sound incredibly good for an inexpensive speaker but have a very industrial look. You'll need a 3D ready receiver and in my opinion the best bang for the buck (if you are in the US) is a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR608 from $350 from Accessories For Less. That leaves you a whopping $250 for a subwoofer. You can order a SUB-120 from Parts Express and have change left over. Don't expect thundering bass in a large room from a starter sub but in my opinion this will flat blow away anything from Bose. And you can always add surrounds and a second sub later.

But honestly for a TV that nice I'd probably want to start out with something a bit nicer. Something In the $1600 price class. But that's your choice.

 

[BobD]

Thanks for the reply sholling. I just went out at lunch and took a look/listen to some Paradigm speakers. They were bookshelf size but I forget which model. He quoted me $1600 for a system that would include a $500 Yamaha receiver, the two Paradigms with matching Paradigm center and a sub. The store had pretty slim pickens for listening so I wasn't able to actually listen to that setup. All I heard were the Paradigm bookshelf speakers. They did sound good but I don't know if I'd shell out that kind of money without hearing it first.

 

[sholling]

The ideas that I usually offer in the higher price class are these.

2x Infinity Primus P362 towers $400/pr shipped from the Audioholics Store. The timbre matched PC350 for $200. That's $600 shipped and they are common enough to find in most cities. An Onkyo TX-NR708 on sale for $677 shipped from Tiger Direct. That's $1277 shipped. The sub is hard to size without cubic footage but a pair SUB-120s should do okay in most medium sized rooms. Later add a pair of P152 bookshelves for surrounds.

Or a perhaps a SVSounds SBS-2/PB12-NSD bundle 5.1 for $1150 and the refurbished TX-SR608. That's 5.1 with a serious subwoofer for $1500 plus shipping. Disclaimer: I haven't personally heard these but the reviews are excellent. Here's a review for the older SBS-1 (replaced by the SBS-2) bundle.

Honestly if you can live with homely speakers the Behringers sound really good for the money and 5 would only cost you $320ish. Or 3 of the B2030Ps and a pair of Wharfedale WH-2 surrounds for $80/pr from Wild West Stereo. The 608 will drive this system just fine, and you'll just need to size a sub to the room.

EDIT: Let me add one more thing. If you like the Paradigm speaker then that's all that matters. I've heard darn few Paradigms but they sure have a following. But make sure that you pick bookshelves that extend down below 80hz. Otherwise you get a ping pong effect as the sound moves from the speakers to the sub and back. Below 80hz the transition isn't so noticeable. You'll also likely get much more bang for the subwoofer buck buying that piece from an internet direct manufacturer. Elemental Designs, Epik, Hsu Research, and SVSounds will be glad to help you size a sub for your room.

 

[BobD]

OK talked to the wife. She's pretty set on 800 bucks. At that price I think I'm going to have to utilize my Cambridge Soundworks M80's cause I have to buy a receiver, center channel and sub. Pretty much decided on the Yamaha RX-V765 so that leaves 400 for a center and sub.

So , what center would be a good match to the CSW's M80's?

 

[templemaners]

OK talked to the wife. She's pretty set on 800 bucks. At that price I think I'm going to have to utilize my Cambridge Soundworks M80's cause I have to buy a receiver, center channel and sub. Pretty much decided on the Yamaha RX-V765 so that leaves 400 for a center and sub.

So , what center would be a good match to the CSW's M80's?

Keep in mind that Yamaha receiver is not 3D capable.

Do you know if the Cambridge Soundworks have a dedicated center channel? I couldn't seem to find one when I googled it.

How big is your room in cubic feet? Include all areas that are open to it (like a dining room or kitchen for example).

Edit: Is your budget pretty firm on 800 forever or 800 for now? The reason I'm asking is alot of the 3D receivers are pretty new, so getting one on the cheap w/o compromising on quality and still having enough for a center channel and sub(s) will be difficult.

 

[sholling]

I would contact CSW and ask them what they suggest for center. You may have to get it from eBay etc. But they'll know the proper match. They'll know best. Or you can run without a center and put everything into the subwoofer. The just make up a birthday/christmas wishlist and add/replace as money allows.

 

[BobD]

I don't really understand the concept of a 3D receiver. Why does a receiver need to be 3D for a 3D tv?

 

[gmichael]

Newer receivers also proccess video. That way you can switch from one source to another with a single click.

 

[BobD]

I'm still lost. What do you mean by process video? The output from a cable box or dvd goes thru the receiver on it's way to the TV?

 

[templemaners]

I'm still lost. What do you mean by process video? The output from a cable box or dvd goes thru the receiver on it's way to the TV?

I think we need to take a step back... are you planning on using any of the 3D functionality of the TV (like for movies)? Or are you just using it like a normal TV?

 

[Pyrrho]

I'm still lost. What do you mean by process video? The output from a cable box or dvd goes thru the receiver on it's way to the TV?

Yes. If you decide to buy a 3D BD (Blu-ray) player, you will want to use the HDMI from it to hook up to the receiver so that the receiver can extract the sound, and you want the receiver to then pass the video on to the TV. If the receiver cannot pass 3D video, you have a problem. So, if you are ever wanting 3D in the future, you would be better off getting a new model receiver that can pass 3D.


For the sound, you will want to get a center speaker that sounds as much like the front left and right speakers as possible, so that when a sound pans across the front (as, for example, when a car drives by from left to right), the tonal quality of the sound will remain the same. Ideally, the center speaker will be identical to the front right and left speakers.

The subwoofer does not have to match the other speakers.

 

[sholling]

I'm still lost. What do you mean by process video? The output from a cable box or dvd goes thru the receiver on it's way to the TV?

Yes an HDMI feed carrying audio and hi-def video goves from the cable box and DVD/Blu-Ray players to the receiver where acts as a switch box and sends the audio to the speakers. You can run the video directly to the TV and the audio to the the receiver for now and just upgrade the receiver later.

 

[jostenmeat]

I don't really understand the concept of a 3D receiver. Why does a receiver need to be 3D for a 3D tv?

It only needs to have HDMI 1.4 bandwidth to pass the greater video info. However, the Panasonic 3D players of today have dual HDMI outputs specifically so we don't have to throw away our receivers. Send one HDMI to receiver from player, and another HDMI to TV from player, and there you go. You don't have to necessarily buy any more cables, since you would use two either way, but they're very cheap, like a few bux, at places like Monoprice.

 

[Pyrrho]

It only needs to have HDMI 1.4 bandwidth to pass the greater video info. However, the Panasonic 3D players of today have dual HDMI outputs specifically so we don't have to throw away our receivers. Send one HDMI to receiver from player, and another HDMI to TV from player, and there you go. You don't have to necessarily buy any more cables, since you would use two either way, but they're very cheap, like a few bux, at places like Monoprice.

All 3D BD players should have two HDMI outputs, but since he has not yet purchased the receiver, he should simply buy a receiver that is capable of passing 3D so that he will have no problems in the future, in case Panasonic no longer thoughtfully puts two HDMI outputs on their players when he goes to buy a player. Unless, of course, he does not care about 3D and never wants it, though if 3D catches on, it will likely affect the resale value of the receiver, so that it still may be a good idea to buy one that can pass a 3D signal.

If I had a 3D TV and no receiver, I would not even consider buying a receiver that was not capable of passing a 3D signal.

 

[jostenmeat]

All 3D BD players should have two HDMI outputs, but since he has not yet purchased the receiver, he should simply buy a receiver that is capable of passing 3D so that he will have no problems in the future, in case Panasonic no longer thoughtfully puts two HDMI outputs on their players when he goes to buy a player. Unless, of course, he does not care about 3D and never wants it, though if 3D catches on, it will likely affect the resale value of the receiver, so that it still may be a good idea to buy one that can pass a 3D signal.

If I had a 3D TV and no receiver, I would not even consider buying a receiver that was not capable of passing a 3D signal.

I wouldn't really care at all, expect for one thing. I use a 25' Monoprice HDMI between pre/pro and projector, and I really don't want to fish another 25' HDMI cable. For a 54" TV, assuming the components are all right there next to it, I honestly wouldn't care. I do not expect the 3D BDPs to not have dual outputs for quite a while. Likewise, I still expect BDPs, 3D or not, to still have optical output for quite a while, for instance.

Also, one can have your separate calibration per source input? 3D via active shutter will need twice the brightness, right, or do I have that wrong . . . ?

 

[Pyrrho]

I wouldn't really care at all, expect for one thing. I use a 25' Monoprice HDMI between pre/pro and projector, and I really don't want to fish another 25' HDMI cable. For a 54" TV, assuming the components are all right there next to it, I honestly wouldn't care. I do not expect the 3D BDPs to not have dual outputs for quite a while. Likewise, I still expect BDPs, 3D or not, to still have optical output for quite a while, for instance.

Also, one can have your separate calibration per source input? 3D via active shutter will need twice the brightness, right, or do I have that wrong . . . ?

If one has a receiver that does not pass 3D video, a 3D BD player needs either to have two HDMI outputs or one must use multichannel analog for the new high resolution audio formats on BD. The new high resolution audio formats cannot be output via optical or coaxial digital cable.

If all 3D BD players, now and in the future, have 2 HDMI outputs, then it can be hooked up okay and all will be well. But with a receiver that can pass a 3D signal, there is no downside, as one can still use both HDMI outputs on the BD player if one wishes to do so. But it gives the option of switching the video in the receiver, which is often more convenient than sending the video straight to the TV and the audio straight to the receiver.

Since he has not yet purchased the receiver, there is no reason for him to not purchase one that cannot pass 3D video. If he already owned something that could not pass such a signal, then I would suggest he hook things up using what he has, if possible. But he has nothing, and there is no reason for him to not get something that is capable of passing 3D. Besides, the new models often do "Audio Return Channel", allowing one to use one HDMI connector for sending audio both to and from the TV:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/arc.aspx

But regardless of whether or not he will use such a feature, it will affect resale value should he ever decide to sell it. Buying an already obsolete receiver is not generally a good idea, unless one gets a really good price on it. And even then, it is only a good deal if it does all that one wants from it.

 

[BobD]

Thanks so much for all the good feedback. I've learned a lot on this thread. I think I will look for a receiver that passes 3D. Any suggestions for something in the 400-500 range?

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks so much for all the good feedback. I've learned a lot on this thread. I think I will look for a receiver that passes 3D. Any suggestions for something in the 400-500 range?

From doing a quick online search, I am seeing why you were looking at an older model, as the prices on them is more attractive. You may want to consider a newer Yamaha, or a Denon, such as one of these three:

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/257.asp?compareitem=5330&compareitem=4858&compareitem=5325&compareitem=5308&remove=4858

The prices there are retail prices, so you ought to be able to get them for somewhat less in the near future, if not right now.

If you want to stick with Yamaha, I think the Yamaha RX-A700 should be very good, but the best price I have seen from a reputable source is about $600 delivered (from either the store at this site or Amazon). Here is a link to three other lessor Yamaha receivers:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/Detail.html?compitem1=5117354&compitem2=5124254&compitem3=5119754&CTID=5000200&VNM=LIVE&B_compare.x=9&B_compare.y=6&comp_items=5124254&comp_items=5117354&comp_items=5119754

The prices there are retail prices, so you ought to be able to get them for somewhat less.

Unfortunately for your budget, passing 3D is a new thing, so discounts are harder to get on receivers that can do that.


As a temporary measure, you may wish to consider moving your Yamaha RX-777 and your Cambridge Soundworks Newton Series M80 speakers into the room with your TV, and just hook up the stereo line level outputs of your TV into an auxiliary input on the receiver. You will only have 2 channel sound, but it should sound a whole lot better than what you are getting from the TV speakers. That way you will have decent sound at no cost while you are considering your options. It is usually not best to rush a decision, so that you make sure you buy something that does everything you need it to do. I ran my TV sound that way for years before I finally bought a surround system.

 

[sholling]

Thanks so much for all the good feedback. I've learned a lot on this thread. I think I will look for a receiver that passes 3D. Any suggestions for something in the 400-500 range?

If you're in the US you can pick up a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR608 for $350 from Accessories for less. As long as you have 8ohm speakers it should serve you well.