doing the digital thing...

[eblantz]

First of all, thanks to audioholics and all you posters for providing such a great set of resources. As they say, though, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. So, before I get financially reckless, I’m hoping for some commonsensical input.

I’ll start simple. All of my music is now digital, stored on a 500 gb HD as .mp3s (mostly), .wma or .wav, that are served to a newly acquired Squeezebox (which, as I understand it, has some pretty good encoding/decoding built in). This may be heresy for some connoisseurs, but I just couldn’t handle the CD chaos and 5000+ albums stored without compression are also a bit hard to manage! Since most of my new music acquisition comes from emusic or other online sources in .mp3 format, I don’t see this changing soon, although I know the bandwidth/compression technology will definitely improve with time.

Here's where things get old school. The Squeezebox is attached via RCA to a 20 or so Y.O., Sony str-d511 receiver powering even more geriatric 3-way Polks. Of course, now that the music “supply side” is somewhat modern, I’m in the market for appropriate “demand-side” upgrades.

My first question is….. since most of my music is 192kbps .mp3s, what level of receiver/amp is appropriate? Does the .mp3 file compression make a higher end receiver a waste of money? Alternatively, does a “network capable” receiver, like the Yamaha N600, do anything for me if I’ve already got the squeezebox that connects with the computer wirelessly? Not to complicate the scenario too much, but I’d also like to buy something that will support video/home theater with the next year or two and….. the tv’s in a different room, so I may be interested in something that can simultaneously serve audio/video in on room and audio only on a separate channel in the next. New speakers are also in the budget.

Thanks in advance for whatever input you can offer. Even if you don't have product advice, I'd also appreciate name of reputable/honest sales outfits in the SF Bay Area (preferably Marin or SF).

Cheers,

 

[MDS]

My first question is….. since most of my music is 192kbps .mp3s, what level of receiver/amp is appropriate?

Any receiver that meets your needs for power, features, and price. The format of the music is not a consideration.

Does the .mp3 file compression make a higher end receiver a waste of money? Alternatively, does a “network capable” receiver, like the Yamaha N600, do anything for me if I’ve already got the squeezebox that connects with the computer wirelessly?

IMO, what makes 'higher end' receivers a waste of money is that they offer very little incremental improvement in sound quality or features for an exponential increase in price. The network capable receivers are very poor compared to the Squeezebox (as far as streaming music from a computer goes).

Not to complicate the scenario too much, but I’d also like to buy something that will support video/home theater with the next year or two and….. the tv’s in a different room, so I may be interested in something that can simultaneously serve audio/video in on room and audio only on a separate channel in the next.

A 7.1 receiver with Zone 2 capability will allow you to view and hear a 5.1 source in the main room and stereo audio in a second room. Some of them offer a zone 2 pre-out so you could connect a separate amp in zone 2 and retain 7.1 in the main room.

 

[eblantz]

many thanks...

....couch potato. you're quick! I also like the skepticism about the incremental improvement of high end gear. I picked up an old Marantz 2238B (?) and my Polks at the local Good Will for $15 each, and they blow doors on some pricey newer stuff I've heard, at least for my ears. so, what's your take on the best bang for the buck on a 7.1 with zone 2 receiver in the 100wpc range. I've always loved Yamaha gear, and read the rxv659 review thinking it would be perfect, but I don't think it supports a second zone. there's one more wrinkle. I've got a "b" set of speakers wired outside right now. I'd love to be able to control volumes on A and B independently (plus the eventual home theater setup). can i buy some sort of peripheral switch to enable that, or would i need a 9.1 receiver?

 

[MDS]

Everyone will have their brand preferences and mine is Onkyo but any similar receiver from Yamaha, Denon, or Pioneer would work well too. It's really a matter of price vs features as each manufacturer favors certain features over others at a given price point (eg. that Yamaha 659 has pre-outs but no HDMI, the Onkyo 604/674 has HDMI but no pre-outs. Which features are required for your needs?).

A+B speaker terminals run off the same front channels so there is no way to control the volume separately from the receiver. If you were to wire the B terminals to a volume control, you could vary the volume of the B speakers but A and B will play the same source. If you want to play different sources in different rooms with separate volume controls, you have to get a receiver with Zone2 (sometimes called multi-room, multi-source).

 

[Nestor]

I, too, recently added a Squeezebox to my system as well. All of my cd's were ripped to FLAC lossless compression to a 500gig hard drive.

A number of Yamaha receivers employ a "Compressed Music Enhancer" mode which is supposed to improve the sound quality of mp3. Does it work? Yes, but the effect is subtle. Best to hear it before making the decision.

From what I can see, the 659 has the compressed music enhancer and zone 2 outputs. I'd give it a second look.

 

[eblantz]

thanks nestor.

on yamaha's site, there's nothing about multiroom/multizone on the product features overview, but at second glance they do list "zone 2 ( audio only)" in the detailed specs. surprising to me, since i'd think this is a feature they'd want to put front and center. maybe not. anyway, I'll definitely go have a second look/listen. only problem now is that Best Buy seems to be the only authorized dealer in my area and my last visit there was somewhat, let's say, "disappointing" in terms of the knowledge of the salesperson I attracted. maybe i'll try talking to Yamaha tech support directly to make sure it's got what I need. Thanks again.

 

[skizzerflake]

...I’ll start simple. All of my music is now digital, stored on a 500 gb HD as .mp3s (mostly), .wma or .wav, that are served to a newly acquired Squeezebox (which, as I understand it, has some pretty good encoding/decoding built in). This may be heresy for some connoisseurs, but I just couldn’t handle the CD chaos and 5000+ albums stored without compression are also a bit hard to manage! Since most of my new music acquisition comes from emusic or other online sources in .mp3 format, I don’t see this changing soon, although I know the bandwidth/compression technology will definitely improve with time.

Don't throw away your source material. After you live with MP3 for a while, you might find yourself lusting for the uncompressed sound of the originals.

My first question is….. since most of my music is 192kbps .mp3s, what level of receiver/amp is appropriate? Does the .mp3 file compression make a higher end receiver a waste of money? Alternatively, does a “network capable” receiver, like the Yamaha N600, do anything for me if I’ve already got the squeezebox that connects with the computer wirelessly? Not to complicate the scenario too much, but I’d also like to buy something that will support video/home theater with the next year or two and….. the tv’s in a different room, so I may be interested in something that can simultaneously serve audio/video in on room and audio only on a separate channel in the next. New speakers are also in the budget.

If you're compressing them to 192K, the amplifier quality is pretty much irrelevant as long as it isn't producing smoke in loud passages. Any competent, correctly functioning and well connected amp or receiver is cleaner than the source if you're playing MP3 at that bitrate. As you upgrade you will probably find that listening fatigue sets in with extended listening, especially if you go to HT and use any DSP to simulate 5 channels from your mp3s. The DSP will do another cycle of digital conversion so the artifacts that are present in mp3 files will become even more audible.

 

[MDS]

As you upgrade you will probably find that listening fatigue sets in with extended listening, especially if you go to HT and use any DSP to simulate 5 channels from your mp3s. The DSP will do another cycle of digital conversion so the artifacts that are present in mp3 files will become even more audible.

What's with the constant barage of criticism against lossy compression? There will be no 'digital conversions' by DSP processing.

If the recording is done poorly or just generally not to your liking the original uncompressed version will sound just as bad as the mp3.

 

[jcPanny]

System Upgrade

I would consider a speaker upgrade before spending all your moneny on the receiver. I am sure the Polks sound great for the $15 you paid, but they are the most critical component, so budget acordingly.

 

[eblantz]

thanks skizzerflake (!?) et al

just to clarify, i've ripped mostly at the 192kbps bitrate or higher, but the files are obviously substantially higher (10-20 mbs each). not sure I was clear on this, based on your response.

That said, are you asserting that at this level the amp/receiver can't do much for quality? obviously, going forward, I'd anticipate higher fidelity in the source files, so would want to plan accordingly.

Also, if i buy new speakers prior to new receiver are there any concerns with the older receiver not being able to power them (with sub) in a room that's roughly 20x40. I'm not sure the old Sony has the goods at, probably, 30wpc.

Finally, i visited a high-end audio store the other day and got a heavy dose of gentle scorn for even mentioning the Yamaha RX-V659, which has pretty much everything I need but that, needlesstosay, they don't carry. I was assured that the low-end Integra was vastly superior (at roughly $700). Thoughts???

cheers,

 

[MDS]

just to clarify, i've ripped mostly at the 192kbps bitrate or higher, but the files are obviously substantially higher (10-20 mbs each).

The bitrate is not the same as the file size.

Also, if i buy new speakers prior to new receiver are there any concerns with the older receiver not being able to power them (with sub) in a room that's roughly 20x40. I'm not sure the old Sony has the goods at, probably, 30wpc.

Just make sure the speaker's nominal impedance is 6-8 ohms (preferably 8) as most any receiver can drive 8 ohm speakers. 30 wpc won't be enough to drive the speakers very loudly in a room that large.

While I am a fan of Onkyo (Integra) I would not say that the low-end Integra is vastly superior to the Yamaha.