Does my audio company know what they are doing?

[salsa086]

Do my speaker installers know what they are doing?

A room in our new house is going to be our dedicated theater room. The audio company we are using is installing a 6.1 speaker setup for us. They are installing speakers only, and not the components. I went by today to check on the progress of the room and they have mounted our speakers in the ceiling both in the front and the rear.

Is this correct for a 6.1 speaker configuration?

I've attached a sketch of the rooms current configuration. I checked the following dolby site: Dolby roomlayout and they say

"Ideally, your front speakers, high-frequency drivers, or tweeters should be positioned at ear level (when you're seated). Our recommended height for the surrounds is above ear level, as soundtracks are likely to be optimized for that location."

Are my speaker installers a bunch of hack imposters or is this simply another configuration that works equally well but is commonly overlooked?

Thanks for your input!

 

[jaxvon]

In-ceiling speakers can work when you don't have the option for other styles of installation, but they are not the best option. If you're opting for the hidden look, then you can still get high-quality in-wall speakers where the tweeters are ear-level and will give superior sound.

 

[salsa086]

interesting... from what I've been reading most experts are recommending that the fronts be at ear level and the rears significantly above ear level.

I did mention that I would be mounting a large projector screen at the front of the theater. He may have chosen to mount the front speakers overhead to avert any potential issues with acquiring an accoustically transparent projector screen (if any really exist).

I'm curious to hear what others think....

 

[saurabh]

I dont think its a good setup, it could have been better managed using wall mounts and a different placement.

Did you specify to these ppl that the spks should not show or something like that.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

I'd move the surround speakers ahead more... unless your seat is against the back wall.

 

[MACCA350]

Is your couch going to be against the back wall? If not, your surround sides should be further up the side. In-ceilings for mains You did say this was a dedicated theater room, right? As saurabh said: did you specify hidden speakers and this layout?

In a dedicated room, you should be able to get close to the layout as specified on the Dolby site(there was a section called 'The Dolby Guide to Home Theater Sound' that was more comprehensive than that 'Dolby room layout' but I couldn't find it)

cheers

EDIT:Ninja beat me to it

 

[Johnd]

Why are you asking now? Every builder has to submit plans to which the inspector and homeowner signs off. I can't imagine that the speaker type and placement were not divulged (with schedules, drawings and specs) at that time. If they were not divulged, you have a cause of action...or more directly, you would not have to pay for that portion of the build.

I guess I'm going off because everyone and his brother has a 'home theater", whatever that means. A "dedicated theater room", as you put it, that has all the speakers mounted in the ceiling, will be seriously lacking direction from the the fronts, and envelopment for the sides and rears. This is HT 101...you want the fronts and center in front of you, directly pointed at your ear, and the sides and rears at ear level to two feet above. The human ear is funny, and if you deviate far from these widely held parameters, although the "sound" will be there, the effect will not, and certain frequecies will never reach your ear.

Like saurabh recommended, wall mounts (or stands) is really what you need to acheive proper placement. If I were you, I'd give this some serious consideration (and "planning"), and talk to your builder and subcontractor. Good luck.

 

[salsa086]

I wish they had submitted plans that I sign off on, if they did I wouldn't be in this situation. This builder uses this company as their "exclusive" audio provider. I purchased their "6.1 speaker package."

When I called to speak to a "design rep" at the audio company he told me that 3 in the front and 3 in the back with rear center, left and right surround all in line is compliant with the 6.1 standard. Is that true, I can't find it anywhere online.

I then told him I read some of the design specifications on the dolby website, and told him that his speaker setup is not compliant with the 6.1 dolby standard since the front speakers were not firing at ear level. He replied by telling me the speakers have swivel tweeters that will be aimed at the center of the room. The tweeter dome can swivel enough to aim it. He said "we've been doing this for 15 years, don't worry, it will create a great accoustical experience better than anything you've experienced at an actual theater"

He said because I plan on putting a projection screen at the front of the room, ceiling speakers would be a better choice over wall speakers as the wall speakers would have to fire through the projections screen, causing audio distortion. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

at this point I don't have many options, I just reviewed my contract paperwork and it doesn't specify anywhere that I was purchasing a Dolby 6.1 speaker installation, it merely says "Home Theater 6.1 Speaker System"

Any thoughts on his comments? I've also reattached a sketch of the room with some added items.

 

[Ethan Winer]

> I checked the following dolby site ... and they say <

I disagree that rear speakers should be above ear level, and so do most recording engineers who mix surround soundtracks for film. This is not to say you won't be happy with the speakers higher, but the thinking is flawed.

That's a throw-back to when movie theaters used Dolby matrix surround, and the rear channel was a mono feed. The logic was that by placing the speakers higher up, you'd get more of a stereo effect from the rear of the theater. These days surround speakers are discrete channels, and all ambience is encoded into the sound track rather than depending on ambience in the room itself. So for a home theater it's generally considered better for all speakers to be at ear height.

--Ethan

 

[chicagomd]

"we've been doing this for 15 years, don't worry"

Not knowing anything about the vendor you are dealing with specifically, I would say that response is a bad sign. "Trust me" is not a vailid response to a customer's concerns, especially in a custom installation when you are shelling out a fair amount of money.

 

[Johnd]

When I called to speak to a "design rep" at the audio company he told me that 3 in the front and 3 in the back with rear center, left and right surround all in line is compliant with the 6.1 standard. Is that true, I can't find it anywhere online.

He said because I plan on putting a projection screen at the front of the room, ceiling speakers would be a better choice over wall speakers as the wall speakers would have to fire through the projections screen, causing audio distortion. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

Question #1: No. The drawing shows that all three rears are in line; there is no separation between sides and rear. I have never seen such a standard. The human ear is very peculiar for the rear hemisphere. I would not deviate far from standard practice.

Question #2: Well, they would only have to "fire through" the screen if you placed them as such. I have an 84" screen, my fronts are slightly behind it (and three feet to either side), and the acoustics are impeccable.

As far as rears and sides when placed above ear level being "a throw back", I have to disagree. First, you have to understand what the sides and rears are used for. They are not meant to be directional as the center and fronts. Sides and rears are for ambience and effects that "surround you" (except for sacd/dvd-a, which you have not mentioned): this is the very reason why multidirectional speakers are used for surrounds, albeit with their own issues, most notably, undesirable reflection.

Bottom line: I would see if they would do the pre-wire as it ought to be done:
1) fronts near but off side wall, and at screen or slightly behind, 22'-30' off axis tweeter at ear level;
2) center on axis, at bottom of screen, angled at ear level;
3) sides at or slightly above ear level, 90'-100' off axis, close to side wall;
4) rear (if just one), at or slightly above ear level, on axis
and then tweak from there.

If you insist on in ceiling speakers, I just feel you will be sorely lacking a lot of frequency response and envelopment.

You may want to read the "Home Theater Speaker Layout - An Essential Guide" in the Set Up Your System section of Get an AV Education Heading right here at Audioholics, rather than listening to the sub/installer that I feel, is selling you his package, rather than offering some sound, widely accepted av advice. Cheers.

 

[jonnythan]

Just so there is no confusion over what is the industry standard for surround placement, please consult Dolby's online Speaker Placement Guide:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html

 

[Johnd]

Thank you jonnythan: I don't know who thinks it's a good idea to put all the speakers in the ceiling...other than this particular installer. It's not mentioned where the sub should go, but I suppose higher up...maybe in the attic. After all, there is no consensus on exact (standardized) sub placement.

Seriously though, substantial deviation from that placement guide will only reap udesirable effects.

 

[jonnythan]

Personally, I wouldn't accept the current placement. Anyone who would choose that as the "accepted" location is simply incompetent. The front mains should be at ear level, the surrounds should be to your sides, or *slightly* behind, and a couple of feet up, and the surround back should be at the same height directly behind the listening position.

In-ceiling speakers for surrounds are OK, IMO, but not preferable.... and for the front 3, simply unacceptable.

I wouldn't accept in-ceilings for my super-budget living room system, much less a dedicated room with a projector.

 

[Johnd]

Personally, I wouldn't accept the current placement. Anyone who would choose that as the "accepted" location is simply incompetent. The front mains should be at ear level, the surrounds should be to your sides, or *slightly* behind, and a couple of feet up, and the surround back should be at the same height directly behind the listening position.

In-ceiling speakers for surrounds are OK, IMO, but not preferable.... and for the front 3, simply unacceptable.

I wouldn't accept in-ceilings for my super-budget living room system, much less a dedicated room with a projector.

Allow me to augment your statement. In-ceiling speakers are not ok, they are a last resort, even with "directional" tweeters. Not even a close second best to properly placed high end in-walls, and they don't even rate with a properly placed conventional speaker system.

Also, it is not only dedicated theater, it is a dedicated theater in new construction...meaning salsa should be able to get whatever he wants, since he's paying for it (assuming he'll pay for any reasonable upcharge), and he's the one who will be listening to it. Heck, it's his new home. I wouldn't accept it either, not for a super budget ht, not even a modest budget ht. Cheers.

 

[salsa086]

John,

thanks for all your input. I'll give the installer a call again with your suggestions.

 

[Johnd]

John,

thanks for all your input. I'll give the installer a call again with your suggestions.

You bet. Let us know what transpires.

 

[jonnythan]

I'm anxious to hear how it goes as well.

Best of luck to you!

 

[ScottMayo]

Give'm h?ell. In-ceilings for a dedicated room, that's just pathetic. In ceilings are only used as a last resort, when you absolutely cannot have exposed speakers in a room. Suitable for PA systems only.

They've clearly spent 15 years working out how to shave off every penny.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A room in our new house is going to be our dedicated theater room. The audio company we are using is installing a 6.1 speaker setup for us. They are installing speakers only, and not the components. I went by today to check on the progress of the room and they have mounted our speakers in the ceiling both in the front and the rear.

Is this correct for a 6.1 speaker configuration?

I've attached a sketch of the rooms current configuration. I checked the following dolby site: Dolby roomlayout and they say

"Ideally, your front speakers, high-frequency drivers, or tweeters should be positioned at ear level (when you're seated). Our recommended height for the surrounds is above ear level, as soundtracks are likely to be optimized for that location."

Are my speaker installers a bunch of hack imposters or is this simply another configuration that works equally well but is commonly overlooked?

Thanks for your input!

Good luck, is all I can say. Kind of getting the info after the fact? Too late, unless it is still in early construction and can be changed.

What kind of projector? How far does it need to be? What is the place they put the HDMI is far from the mounting location needed? Fixed screen or motorized up and down?
Just a whole bunch to consider. 15 years means nothing about doing things well and correctly.