Do new houses have weaker breakers?

[cameron paterson]

I have 4 crown amps in my system and never had a breaker trip. Do new houses breakers trip easier or no?

 

[j_garcia]

Depends, most places probably don't have a 20a circuit for living rooms, as well as what else is on that circuit. 15a might be enough, but not if there's a ton of other stuff on that same circuit.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have 4 crown amps in my system and never had a breaker trip. Do new houses breakers trip easier or no?

They trip easier under a different set of circumstances. ARC fault breakers are now mandatory on all new construction including modifications, alterations and remodels. Their purpose is to detect arcing which is a major cause of electrical fires. They are designed not to trip for initial arcs that happen in switch contacts. However they can trip at unexpected times, so this system is not perfect but has improved. I have had trouble with rush in currents at turn on, and had to solve this by installing magnetic shunt breakers, where the initial rush in current creates a magnetic force to hold the breaker closed until the rush in current dies.

The biggest issue with them though is the arcing from brushes on the commutator of electric motors. This has pretty much mandated battery powered power tools, as the old AC driven power tools pretty much invariably trip these breakers. Some kitchen appliances can as well. One of my sons has a coffee grinder on his coffee maker, and that one is a devil for tripping the ARC fault breaker.

 

[cpp]

IF they do start tripping, so many interesting wiring issues have been found in the panel. Overloaded runs by a lazy electrician or maybe a home owner that just didn't know any better. Incompatibility ( usually older devices) faulty devices, damaged or faulty wiring, and the standard reason usually an overloaded circuits will cause one to trip like this. .

 

[BMXTRIX]

Newer circuit breakers are just fine. I installed a new subpanel and am using Square D stuff in it. I then ran a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my AV equipment rack and it hasn't gone into overload protection once.

Anyone who is popping a circuit is likely overloading it and it isn't unheard of that circuit breakers fail over time. Typically defaulting to a 'open' state. In which case a new breaker does need to be installed. If you install a new breaker and it immediately pops, then that indicates that there may be another issue with that particular circuit. It may make sense to move equipment to a different circuit, at least for testing purposes. You may also be overloading the circuit that the AV gear is on depending on what other stuff powers off when that circuit breaker pops.

Depending on the potential maximum power draw of the amps, they could create enough draw to pop a circuit breaker. Likewise, if there is a fault inside one of the products on the circuit, it could immediately cause a breaker to trip.

 

[highfigh]

They trip easier under a different set of circumstances. ARC fault breakers are now mandatory on all new construction including modifications, alterations and remodels. Their purpose is to detect arcing which is a major cause of electrical fires. They are designed not to trip for initial arcs that happen in switch contacts. However they can trip at unexpected times, so this system is not perfect but has improved. I have had trouble with rush in currents at turn on, and had to solve this by installing magnetic shunt breakers, where the initial rush in current creates a magnetic force to hold the breaker closed until the rush in current dies.

The biggest issue with them though is the arcing from brushes on the commutator of electric motors. This has pretty much mandated battery powered power tools, as the old AC driven power tools pretty much invariably trip these breakers. Some kitchen appliances can as well. One of my sons has a coffee grinder on his coffee maker, and that one is a devil for tripping the ARC fault breaker.

Look into the older versions of Arc Fault Detection and the problems when vacuum cleaners were used. It was absolutely aggravating and while I agree that arcing is a bad thing, a better way of preventing fires should be found because it makes safe devices unusable.

 

[cameron paterson]

Thanks guys for all the responses!

 

[TLS Guy]

Look into the older versions of Arc Fault Detection and the problems when vacuum cleaners were used. It was absolutely aggravating and while I agree that arcing is a bad thing, a better way of preventing fires should be found because it makes safe devices unusable.

My power tools are either battery or air powered now. We did have an issue now and again with ARC breakers in our former town home, but not in this new home.

 

[highfigh]

My power tools are either battery or air powered now. We did have an issue now and again with ARC breakers in our former town home, but not in this new home.

Does your air compressor cause problems for the breakers?

 

[TLS Guy]

Does your air compressor cause problems for the breakers?

No, but it is hard wired back to the panel, and has a different type of breaker.

 

[highfigh]

No, but it is hard wared back to the panel, and has a different type of breaker.

Just picked up a Toro scroll saw form 1957 yesterday and a Craftsman 103.23340 jointer is waiting for me- started cleaning the scroll saw yesterday and it needs a foot, but it moves freely. Got it from a friend who really doesn't do mechanical things, even though he has been an upholsterer for 50 years. He can use tools and machines but he doesn't/shouldn't repair them. Said the blades broke every time and I found that the blade holders were about 1/2" out of alignment, so that was one of the first tweaks I made. Someone had made a cart to make changing from the scroll saw to the jointer easier, but I may mount the jointer on the base of my old Craftsman table saw which, as you can see, wasn't well cared for- it was left for me to pick up but it was raining, so....

I found an original fence for it last year, so it's ready to use.

 

[highfigh]

Here's the scroll saw, as of yesterday, partially cleaned- I need to braze the hold down and as you can see in the photo, it has already been repaired. As I found in the pdf of the brochure for Toro woodworking machines, this can also accept jigsaw blades and be used without the upper arm- the pdf is too large to upload on AH but here's a link to the thread in a forum at vintagemachinery.org

Toro Scroll saw - Old Woodworking Machines

 

[Hobbit]

I'm struggling to believe those amps are blowing the breaker. Electricians do some funny things sometimes and outlets aren't always in the room you'd expect. I've never come across a house, new or old construction where the wiring was a clean as you think it should be. I've also seen wiring on new homes where the inspector signed off on it but it doesn't meet code. I would do some snooping and find out what else may be connected to that circuit.

A couple of Case and points. I had the 15A breaker blow where my HT is connected -2amps, 2 sw's, AVR, big TV +, Electric fireplace (a constant BIG load), plus a bunch other stuff. It blew when I turned on my espresso machine which is plugged into an outlet in the kitchen. But it's close to the den where the HT is. I thought that was strange. Now I don't turn on the espresso machine when the fireplace is on. The fireplace and espresso machine are big constant loads, not surges like a HT, and easily exceed 15 amps for periods of time.

It also happened one other time when I had the HT going and I turned on the espresso machine. But no fireplace. Something I've done many times. It turned out my GF plugged here EV, a constant 7-8 amps, into an outlet in the garage. An outlet which I have no idea why it's connected to the den circuit. There are outlets between it and the den on their own circuit.

Not saying it can't be a faulty circuit breaker. But I would look elsewhere first.

 

[Speedskater]

I just read that some new breaker boxes (panel boards) arrive with loose terminal screws.
Warning - working in breaker boxes is vary dangerous!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I just read that some new breaker boxes (panel boards) arrive with loose terminal screws.
Warning - working in breaker boxes is vary dangerous!

Life is dangerous.

 

[lovinthehd]

Has Thed Denney gotten into home wiring?

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm struggling to believe those amps are blowing the breaker. Electricians do some funny things sometimes and outlets aren't always in the room you'd expect. I've never come across a house, new or old construction where the wiring was a clean as you think it should be. I've also seen wiring on new homes where the inspector signed off on it but it doesn't meet code. I would do some snooping and find out what else may be connected to that circuit.

A couple of Case and points. I had the 15A breaker blow where my HT is connected -2amps, 2 sw's, AVR, big TV +, Electric fireplace (a constant BIG load), plus a bunch other stuff. It blew when I turned on my espresso machine which is plugged into an outlet in the kitchen. But it's close to the den where the HT is. I thought that was strange. Now I don't turn on the espresso machine when the fireplace is on. The fireplace and espresso machine are big constant loads, not surges like a HT, and easily exceed 15 amps for periods of time.

It also happened one other time when I had the HT going and I turned on the espresso machine. But no fireplace. Something I've done many times. It turned out my GF plugged here EV, a constant 7-8 amps, into an outlet in the garage. An outlet which I have no idea why it's connected to the den circuit. There are outlets between it and the den on their own circuit.

Not saying it can't be a faulty circuit breaker. But I would look elsewhere first.

Believe it! Powerful amps blow breakers. My amps on start up blow the dedicated breakers, unless you use magnetic shunt breakers. I was with the electrician during the wiring the whole time. I have two circuits dedicated to the amp case. The three two channel power amps powering the front right and left speakers would always blow the breaker unless it was a magnetic shunt breaker. I manually stagger start up. The amps start from 24 volt relays. The front right and left amps are on one relay, the amps for the center on another, the surrounds and Atmos ceiling speakers on another and the rear speaker amps on another, for a total of nine two channel amps for 18 audio channels total.

Newer amps have soft start circuits for this reason. Older amps, mine are close to 20 years old now do not have soft start circuits.

 

[Speedskater]

Yep, some real big power amplifiers can trip breakers on start-up! Amplifiers with a soft-start circuit shouldn't have this problem. Turning the amps on one at a time reduces the problem.
But once everything is operating, it's unlikely to ever trip a breaker or limit maximum audio power..

 

[cpp]

You want to test your 15 amp breakers, hook up a 15amp circular saw and fire it up. A corded 15 amp circular saw has a start wattage of 2400 and a run wattage of 1200. We were cutting some 2x4 boards, and as soon as we started up the saw and started cutting , the power went off, tripped the breaker. Found out the breaker although good was also supplying power to 3 ceiling fans ( about 3 amps between the three) and a light ( 0.5 amps) that was on.

 

[highfigh]

Believe it! Powerful amps blow breakers. My amps on start up blow the dedicated breakers, unless you use magnetic shunt breakers. I was with the electrician during the wiring the whole time. I have two circuits dedicated to the amp case. The three two channel power amps powering the front right and left speakers would always blow the breaker unless it was a magnetic shunt breaker. I manually stagger start up. The amps start from 24 volt relays. The front right and left amps are on one relay, the amps for the center on another, the surrounds and Atmos ceiling speakers on another and the rear speaker amps on another, for a total of nine two channel amps for 18 audio channels total.

Newer amps have soft start circuits for this reason. Older amps, mine are close to 20 years old now do not have soft start circuits.

The breakers open when you power the amps simultaneously? I can imagine that- some amplifiers I have seen produce a pretty hard thump/light flicker when the power switch is pressed and with three, those breakers probably wouldn't last long.