Do Laser Lenses Get "Magnetized"?

P

PearlcorderS701

Banned
I had purchased this some years back, and have been using it on several DVD/Blu-ray players since that time:

http://www.allsop.com/classic-cleaning/dvd-carbon-edge-pro-/

It's said to "reduce static build-up" on the laser lens, and also speaks of "demagnetizing" a lens (if I'm not mistaken) using carbon fiber brushes which sweep over the lens during the cleaning process; before putting the disc in, you're supposed to "ground" the system by touching pieces of gold foil-looking areas, but does this have anything to do with "demagnetizing" a laser lens in DVD/BD players? Is there such a process, and what would the pros and cons be of using a cleaning system such as this?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I had purchased this some years back, and have been using it on several DVD/Blu-ray players since that time:

http://www.allsop.com/classic-cleaning/dvd-carbon-edge-pro-/

It's said to "reduce static build-up" on the laser lens, and also speaks of "demagnetizing" a lens (if I'm not mistaken) using carbon fiber brushes which sweep over the lens during the cleaning process; before putting the disc in, you're supposed to "ground" the system by touching pieces of gold foil-looking areas, but does this have anything to do with "demagnetizing" a laser lens in DVD/BD players? Is there such a process, and what would the pros and cons be of using a cleaning system such as this?
The lens magnetized? From static? Can anything get magnetized from static?
I really doubt it. And, even if the lens holder if it is metal is magnetized, so what? The tiny field would not affect the laser light.
 
P

PearlcorderS701

Banned
The lens magnetized? From static? Can anything get magnetized from static?
I really doubt it. And, even if the lens holder if it is metal is magnetized, so what? The tiny field would not affect the laser light.
Thanks, mtry...

So, you're saying this is pretty much snake oil/hogwash?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I could see how static charge would attract dust on lens - thus preventing perfect operation of laser pickup, however these brushes on the cleaning compact disk while possibly removing existing lens dust would probably add much more static - and you would had to use the cleaning disk again quite soon.

Between it's price (way too overpriced) and "lens demagnetizing" (compete rubbish) - I'd say - I 100% agree with Pyrrho - it's an oil snake. I used similar products in the past and never witnessed any tangible results
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
I have an RCA first generation DVD player that my Dad is using in his bedroom. I have never cleaned anything inside it, and it works perfectly.



 
Last edited:
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I have an RCA first generation DVD player that my Dad is using in his bedroom. I have never cleaned anything inside it, and it works perfectly.



People who smoke often need to clean lenses after a while. Or if the air is particularly dirty from something else. That is best done by removing the cover and manually cleaning the lens with some sort of lens cleaner, if one is up for that sort of thing. But nobody needs to "demagnetize" a lens, as we are talking about an optical system, not a magnetic one.

Your case is not uncommon, as most of the time, a lens will not ever need cleaning during the life of the unit (though because it is cheap and easy to clean a lens, it is often a good idea to try that if the player is acting up).
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
People who smoke often need to clean lenses after a while. Or if the air is particularly dirty from something else. That is best done by removing the cover and manually cleaning the lens with some sort of lens cleaner, if one is up for that sort of thing. But nobody needs to "demagnetize" a lens, as we are talking about an optical system, not a magnetic one.

Your case is not uncommon, as most of the time, a lens will not ever need cleaning during the life of the unit (though because it is cheap and easy to clean a lens, it is often a good idea to try that if the player is acting up).
I was going to suggest doing it manually as I have done for some people. In a couple of instances it worked and in some it didn't. Certainly worth a shot though if your player is acting up.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
P

PearlcorderS701

Banned
Thanks for all the replies, fellas; appreciate it!

Well, I have been alternating between this product (the Allsop) and a Maxell so-called brushless "Blu-ray laser cleaner" which I purchased after I bought my OPPO BDP-83; the Maxell supposedly uses air "holes" on the underside of the disc that are supposed to blow debris and other junk off the lens safely, without the possibility of brushes scratching the optical mechanisms. Does it work? I don't know; I can swear, though, if my eyes aren't tricking me, that after using the Allsop CarbonEdge Pro disc, the discs played back on my BDP-83 look a bit sharper and even the sound is better -- if that's even remotely possible being that we're talking about digital audio transfers over a single HDMI link...

Still, I don't know why you have to "ground" the cleaning disc (the Allsop) by touching the gold foil areas before inserting it into the player -- and subsequently, I'm not positive exacty what kind of "technology" Allsop is claiming to use by "de-staticking" the laser lens of a player and if this is even necessary. As for manually cleaning, by removing the cover and physically getting at the laser mechanism, well, I'm not so mechanically inclined to even try that, so I'd rather stick to these disc-based systems.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for all the replies, fellas; appreciate it!

Well, I have been alternating between this product (the Allsop) and a Maxell so-called brushless "Blu-ray laser cleaner" which I purchased after I bought my OPPO BDP-83; the Maxell supposedly uses air "holes" on the underside of the disc that are supposed to blow debris and other junk off the lens safely, without the possibility of brushes scratching the optical mechanisms. Does it work? I don't know; I can swear, though, if my eyes aren't tricking me, that after using the Allsop CarbonEdge Pro disc, the discs played back on my BDP-83 look a bit sharper and even the sound is better -- if that's even remotely possible being that we're talking about digital audio transfers over a single HDMI link...

That is almost certainly the placebo effect. Curiously, many people are insulted when it is suggested that they are human and subject to human limitations, but I hope you do not regard it as an insult to be accused of being human; I certainly do not intend for it to be an insult.


Still, I don't know why you have to "ground" the cleaning disc (the Allsop) by touching the gold foil areas before inserting it into the player -- and subsequently, I'm not positive exacty what kind of "technology" Allsop is claiming to use by "de-staticking" the laser lens of a player and if this is even necessary. As for manually cleaning, by removing the cover and physically getting at the laser mechanism, well, I'm not so mechanically inclined to even try that, so I'd rather stick to these disc-based systems.

Most likely, you do not need to clean the lens at all. If the player is functioning (i.e., if it is reading the discs adequately), you do not need to clean the lens. And if you ever do need to clean it, since you are not up for opening it up, you would probably want to use something that is designed just for cleaning, not for doing some magical nonsense, as something designed for cleaning is likely to be better at cleaning. Either that, or pay someone else to clean it. But again, most likely, it simply does not need cleaning, and you ought not bother with cleaning it if it is playing discs without skipping or other such problems.
 
P

PearlcorderS701

Banned
That is almost certainly the placebo effect. Curiously, many people are insulted when it is suggested that they are human and subject to human limitations, but I hope you do not regard it as an insult to be accused of being human; I certainly do not intend for it to be an insult.
Not insulted at all, Py. ;)

Most likely, you do not need to clean the lens at all. If the player is functioning (i.e., if it is reading the discs adequately), you do not need to clean the lens. And if you ever do need to clean it, since you are not up for opening it up, you would probably want to use something that is designed just for cleaning, not for doing some magical nonsense, as something designed for cleaning is likely to be better at cleaning. Either that, or pay someone else to clean it. But again, most likely, it simply does not need cleaning, and you ought not bother with cleaning it if it is playing discs without skipping or other such problems.
Thank you for the honesty here.

But, can I ask you...you mentioned that if I wanted to clean the lens, I should look for something that actually cleans the lens...but isn't this what these disc-based systems purport to do?
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Not insulted at all, Py. ;)



Thank you for the honesty here.

But, can I ask you...you mentioned that if I wanted to clean the lens, I should look for something that actually cleans the lens...but isn't this what these disc-based systems purport to do?
"Demagnetizing" something and "cleaning" something are two different things. With old-fashioned tape decks (reel-to-reel, cassette, 8-track, whatever), the heads would get both dirty (from residue from tape running across them, as the oxide could not be perfectly bonded to the plastic tape) and magnetized from this (tape heads are made with metal that could be magnetized, which was necessary because it was a magnetic medium; i.e., it had to be able to detect changes in the magnetic field near them due to the differently magnetized portions of tape, and it could misread the magnetic field from the tape if it was itself producing a magnetic field, and could also partially erase tapes with such a magnetic field). So, for optimum performance, one would occasionally use a demagnetizer to demagnetize them, and one would also clean them with some sort of cleaning solution. The two things are separate and distinct things.

With a record player, one would clean the needle (stylus) for optimum performance, because it would wear away the record and would also dig dirt out of the grooves of records which would build up on it (cleaning records before playback was also a good idea, but still it would not be perfect), but one would not "demagnetize" the stylus, because it was not a magnetic medium; it was through the physical movement of the stylus that it "read" the record.

With a lens on a CD or DVD or BD player, it is an optical format, which has nothing whatever to do with magnetism. So "demagnetizing" the lens is, aside from nonsensical (the lens is not made of material that has magnetic properties), it would be pointless even if it were capable of being magnetized, as it being magnetic or not is totally irrelevant to the "seeing" that is being done.

Since the lens never touches the CD or DVD or BD, there is no natural buildup of material from the CD or DVD or BD, so normally, there is no need to ever clean it. This is also why your CDs and DVDs and BDs do not wear out. However, if the air inside the CD player is particularly dirty (which occurs when the outside air is particularly dirty, as they open up to accept a CD to be able to play it), then it may become necessary to clean the lens. Most of the time, it is from smoking that such things will be necessary, as smoke residue gets on everything it comes in contact with. So if you or anyone in your home smokes, then there is a decent chance that you will need to eventually clean the lens, but even so, it may be many years before it is necessary to clean it, depending upon how much people smoke, and how well ventilated the room is, among other things.

Now, if it were only dust that was on a lens, a little brush thing might do the job, but that is not likely to take off smoke residue or other such materials. For that, typically one needs some sort of liquid cleaner, and I recommend using something that you would use to clean eyeglasses or other lenses.

Basically, a lot of things that were necessary for old gear has been passed on to new technology in the form of nonsense, because most people do not understand their gear at all and it is all a bunch of magic boxes to them. So people try to demagnetize things that cannot become magnetized and have nothing whatever to do with magnetism. And since people will part with their money for such things, unscrupulous companies are happy to make such products for the unwary customer. This is also why so many people are prejudiced against CD changers, because there were good reasons to not have record changers (records stacked on top of each other changes the angle of the needle to the record, so that all but one of them will necessarily be at a wrong angle; records can slip on each other, causing extra wow & flutter [changes in speed], and also causing wear on each other). But none of that applies to CDs, as CDs are not stacked on top of each other during playback in a CD changer. But since for most people it is all magic, they have no idea why a record changer was less than ideal, and they have this stupid idea that changers of all types must be bad. As in most other things, it is a good idea to learn as much as possible, so that one makes fewer errors of judgement.
 
P

PearlcorderS701

Banned
"Demagnetizing" something and "cleaning" something are two different things. With old-fashioned tape decks (reel-to-reel, cassette, 8-track, whatever), the heads would get both dirty (from residue from tape running across them, as the oxide could not be perfectly bonded to the plastic tape) and magnetized from this (tape heads are made with metal that could be magnetized, which was necessary because it was a magnetic medium; i.e., it had to be able to detect changes in the magnetic field near them due to the differently magnetized portions of tape, and it could misread the magnetic field from the tape if it was itself producing a magnetic field, and could also partially erase tapes with such a magnetic field). So, for optimum performance, one would occasionally use a demagnetizer to demagnetize them, and one would also clean them with some sort of cleaning solution. The two things are separate and distinct things.

With a record player, one would clean the needle (stylus) for optimum performance, because it would wear away the record and would also dig dirt out of the grooves of records which would build up on it (cleaning records before playback was also a good idea, but still it would not be perfect), but one would not "demagnetize" the stylus, because it was not a magnetic medium; it was through the physical movement of the stylus that it "read" the record.

With a lens on a CD or DVD or BD player, it is an optical format, which has nothing whatever to do with magnetism. So "demagnetizing" the lens is, aside from nonsensical (the lens is not made of material that has magnetic properties), it would be pointless even if it were capable of being magnetized, as it being magnetic or not is totally irrelevant to the "seeing" that is being done.

Since the lens never touches the CD or DVD or BD, there is no natural buildup of material from the CD or DVD or BD, so normally, there is no need to ever clean it. This is also why your CDs and DVDs and BDs do not wear out. However, if the air inside the CD player is particularly dirty (which occurs when the outside air is particularly dirty, as they open up to accept a CD to be able to play it), then it may become necessary to clean the lens. Most of the time, it is from smoking that such things will be necessary, as smoke residue gets on everything it comes in contact with. So if you or anyone in your home smokes, then there is a decent chance that you will need to eventually clean the lens, but even so, it may be many years before it is necessary to clean it, depending upon how much people smoke, and how well ventilated the room is, among other things.

Now, if it were only dust that was on a lens, a little brush thing might do the job, but that is not likely to take off smoke residue or other such materials. For that, typically one needs some sort of liquid cleaner, and I recommend using something that you would use to clean eyeglasses or other lenses.

Basically, a lot of things that were necessary for old gear has been passed on to new technology in the form of nonsense, because most people do not understand their gear at all and it is all a bunch of magic boxes to them. So people try to demagnetize things that cannot become magnetized and have nothing whatever to do with magnetism. And since people will part with their money for such things, unscrupulous companies are happy to make such products for the unwary customer. This is also why so many people are prejudiced against CD changers, because there were good reasons to not have record changers (records stacked on top of each other changes the angle of the needle to the record, so that all but one of them will necessarily be at a wrong angle; records can slip on each other, causing extra wow & flutter [changes in speed], and also causing wear on each other). But none of that applies to CDs, as CDs are not stacked on top of each other during playback in a CD changer. But since for most people it is all magic, they have no idea why a record changer was less than ideal, and they have this stupid idea that changers of all types must be bad. As in most other things, it is a good idea to learn as much as possible, so that one makes fewer errors of judgement.
Thanks for the input here, py...I understand what you're saying regarding the differences between magnetism and "dirty" optical devices and the smoking factor and such (there are no smokers in my household but I understand what you're saying completely and have head that theory before); but as far as these so-called "lens cleaning discs" that are available from just about every manufacturer now, which claim to "brush" or "blow" debris off a lens inside a DVD or CD player, do you not think these devices actually work?

See, with this Allsop disc, there was an area to touch on the disc face before you load it which is supposed to "ground" the cleaner -- I don't understand what this has to do with optical players, as they're suggesting this will "de-static" anything now coming in "contact" with the innards of the mechanisms and yadda yadda yadda...

:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for the input here, py...I understand what you're saying regarding the differences between magnetism and "dirty" optical devices and the smoking factor and such (there are no smokers in my household but I understand what you're saying completely and have head that theory before); but as far as these so-called "lens cleaning discs" that are available from just about every manufacturer now, which claim to "brush" or "blow" debris off a lens inside a DVD or CD player, do you not think these devices actually work?

See, with this Allsop disc, there was an area to touch on the disc face before you load it which is supposed to "ground" the cleaner -- I don't understand what this has to do with optical players, as they're suggesting this will "de-static" anything now coming in "contact" with the innards of the mechanisms and yadda yadda yadda...

:confused: :confused: :confused:

They can work if it is only a little dust on the lens that is the problem, but they are not going to be very good at cleaning it if you have something like smoke residue on it. And it is unlikely to ever be a bit of dust that is a problem. Really, taking the cover off and manually cleaning the lens is, by far, the best way to clean it. But, again, if your player has no trouble playing discs (i.e., it actually plays them and does not skip), there is no reason to clean it, and you won't need to do anything for cleaning at all.

Also, if you have discs that skip that are scratched, but unscratched discs play fine, then the problem is with scratches on the discs, not with the lens being dirty. Or if all of your clean, unscratched discs play fine, except for one, then most likely you have a defective disc, which has nothing to do with the lens on your player, and so you don't need to clean your lens.

Since no one in your family smokes, it is unlikely that you will ever need to clean any lens on any CD, DVD, or BD player.

Basically, I would never recommend that anyone buy one of those cleaners that you have, because it is unlikely to ever be of use, because either the lens is not dirty (which is most likely the case), or it will not be effective enough to clean it well enough to make any difference. But there is a small possibility that it might help, so since you already have such a thing, I would stick it in a drawer and try it if your player ever starts skipping. I doubt it will help in such a case, but it is possible that it would. You do not need to use it at all until then.

In fact, it is a bad idea to clean the lens if it is not dirty, because if your cleaning device has dirt on it, it could scratch the lens. Also, the bristles of the brush could get caught on something inside your player and jam something up. Probably, it will not be a problem, but touching lenses that are clean is never going to help, so why take even a small risk with it?

You see, the makers of cleaning products for audio gear are really not in a good business, as it did make sense to clean records and to clean gear that actually made physical contact between the reading part and the thing being played, but that is not the case with an optical device like a CD player. With a CD that is properly handled, it never needs cleaning, and the lens in the player never needs cleaning, except in unusual circumstances, or when people smoke in the same room with it. Of course, they don't want you to believe me, as they want you to keep buying things from them, whether you need them or not. And since they want your money, they are happy to tell you that you need whatever crap they are selling, even when you don't.

If your CDs play without skipping, you do not need to clean either them or the lens in you player. If you get a bit of dirt on one of your discs, it is a good idea to clean it (you can run water on them, and dry them with a clean, soft, lint free cloth, moving the cloth in a straight line along a radius of the circle, either from the edge inwards, or from the center out, which is the opposite way from how one would clean an old record). If you drop a CD in a mud puddle, that is what you should do with the CD before you play it. But if you don't see any dirt on your CDs, do not clean them. It would be a waste of time and effort and materials.

Basically, they are, at best, misleading in their claims, and, at worst, they are simply lying.

David Hume said:

"We entertain a suspicion concerning any matter of fact, when the witnesses contradict each other; when they are but few, or of a doubtful character; when they have an interest in what they affirm; when they deliver their testimony with hesitation, or on the contrary, with too violent asseverations. There are many other particulars of the same kind, which may diminish or destroy the force of any argument, derived from human testimony."
From An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X "Of Miracles".

In this case, the sellers of the products "have an interest in what they affirm"; i.e., they have something to gain by saying what they are saying. And that, in this case, is why they are saying it, not because it bears any relationship to the truth.


In the future, before you part with your money on audio gear and related products, do research beforehand. For another example, don't get conned into buying expensive wires:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
 
P

PearlcorderS701

Banned
Thank you very much for the detailed response, and for all your time collecting that research. I appreciate your take and input. :)
 

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