Do i need to upgrade my amp

[JackofHearts84]

Hi fellow audiophiles ive recently just joined audioholics, so this is my first post and need a little help making a decision on the below

I recently upgraded my speakers to Tannoy XT8F i paid £1300 for these im running these on a yamaha as500 i paid about £230ish a few years ago, the upgrade to the tannoys resulted a much cleaner sound, the tannoys can handle up to 150watts per speaker at 8ohm and a sensitivity of 89db, my yamaha gives 85 watts per channel, so my question is would it be worth me upgrading to more a expensive amp do i need more powerful amp or does the yamaha deliver what i need and would it be a waste of money? i kinda feel now that i spent quite a bit on speakers do i need to be spending something similar to get the full potten from them? i would appreciate any advice given

thanks

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

clear NO, unless you feel you can't play loud enough...
Yammi A-S500 is a excellent unit. As you've noticed, upgrading speakers - makes all the difference. Electronics are there just to be minimally acceptable.

 

[markw]

Like BSA says, no. Here's a little explanation why.

First off, let's talk speaker sensitivity. that determines how much loudness you get from your watts.

To get a (barely noticeable) increase of 3 decibel peak loudness from your speakers, you will need an amp of about twice your power, which would be more than they are rated for.

Likewise, you could get the same effect, using your current amp, by going to s speaker with a sensitivity of 92 db.

Point of interest: To get an apparent doubling of peak loudness, you'll need TEN times the power, or 850 watts. ...or get a speaker with 99 db sensitivity.

Again, note I specify peak loudness. That's rarely called upon in daily use. Most times all you're using is less than a handfull of watts for normal listening levels.

So, I hope you can see where the importance of watts is are generally overstates. But, it looks great on the ad copy.

 

[JackofHearts84]

I totally agree I think it's a great amp as you mentioned I heard so much more when upgrading my speakers, I am currently happy with it but as you guys know I've always got that itch to spend more to go for a better sound, there is a question I've often wondered though why do people buy more ex pensive amps in the 1000 range is there any other benefits than just pure power?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

there is a question I've often wondered though why do people buy more ex pensive amps in the 1000 range is there any other benefits than just pure power?

audiofools

 

[markw]

Well, you could always borrow* a high glitz amp and see how much of an improvement it makes. Sometimes, the amount of money one spends makes them think they hear things that may or may not be there.

* Purchase from a store that either will loan you one or has a liberal return policy.

 

[herbu]

audiofools

Emmm... Uh... or Audioholics. How many of us have a $1k amp? I do. And though I agree with everything you and Mark said, and often tell people the same thing, I'm going to keep my amp.

Jack, it's the "itch". We all have it, or have had it. And while you may end up with an amp, it won't relieve the itch. You don't mention subwoofers. If you don't have a couple good ones, I suggest you go there first. They'll scratch a lot better than an amp.

 

[RichB]

OK, it is time to put my chain-mail.

One never knows when an amplifier clips, more often than you think. But, to make a determination, you should look at the speaker.

Low impedance, large impedance shifts, and high-phase angles effect the amplifiers ability to remain linear, even before it clips.

Here is a review of the Tannoy Revolution XT 8F where the minimum impedance measures 2.9 ohms at 100 Hz. There is significant energy at this frequency.

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/floor-standing/tannoy-revolution-xt-8f-floor-standing-speakers-review/

Due to the low upper bass impedance, use a stout separate amp for optimal performance.

Dynamic music can have 20 dB peaks which require 100 times the power. If you are listening to music at low levels say with a couple of watts, there can be a peaks at 200 watts.

IMO, a power amplifier with an ample power supply should be considered.

- Rich

 

[markw]

Emmm... Uh... or Audioholics. How many of us have a $1k amp? I do. And though I agree with everything you and Mark said, and often tell people the same thing, I'm going to keep my amp.

OK wise guy. The ley word here is "need". Now, had he said "want", then I could not disagree.

 

[JackofHearts84]

OK guys so why would yamaha produce my amp for £300 at the time, then produce a more ex pensive amp I'm interested in the as2100 surely they would put more into producing this amp such as better material's would it be like saying a laptop for 500 is just as good as a laptop for 2000?

 

[PENG]

Dynamic music can have 20 dB peaks which require 100 times the power. If you are listening to music at low levels say with a couple of watts, there can be a peaks at 200 watts.


- Rich

That's true but rare in music, for pops, jazz etc., even 10-12 seems rare but I do believe the more power the better. However, the OP should not expect to hear night and day difference by doubling his amp power. As you said, it's only going to affect those peak moments, rare and short peak moments.

 

[RichB]

That's true but rare in music, for pops, jazz etc., even 10-12 seems rare but I do believe the more power the better. However, the OP should not expect to hear night and day difference by doubling his amp power. As you said, it's only going to affect those peak moments, rare and short peak moments.

Agreed, 10-12 as a reasonable number for popular music.
You know this stuff better than I.
For non-EE like me, this article is interesting read:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/spkramp.html

The OP has posted an interesting example. The speakers are specified at 8 ohms. From the above article, 20 volts at 8 ohms is 50 watts. However, the Tannoy XT8F I dip to 2.9 ohms at 100 Hz.

A user may obtain a 50 watts power requirement using a amplifier power calculator. That answer is not accurate for these speakers. A 100 Hz tone into the XT8F's (were they fully resistive) is at 2.9 ohms requires 137 watts (20 volts squared / 2.9), almost 3 times the power.

Speakers are reactive loads not purely resistive. Not all amps are linear into load and providing only one frequency - 137 watts may be optimistic.

Listening to decent recordings, with 10-12 DB dynamic range, on an amp that struggles to put out 120 watts (your average receiver), can fail to produce the current to maintain the voltage. What does that sound like?

Well, amps are pretty good at clipping, much better than the used to be. So most likely it sound like less sound and perhaps audible distortion (though it has to get pretty bad for most to notice). Since now one can hear what is not produced, it sound just fine until you can compare it to something with ample power.

- Rich

 

[markw]

Just buy the damn amp already. You want it so go for it. Many of us have bought bigger amps but the consensus is that you shouldn't expect an epiphany.

It sounds like you want us to validate your decision unilaterally. It ain't gonna happen. Most of us have enough experience here to know what maters and what doesn't.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

OK guys so why would yamaha produce my amp for £300 at the time, then produce a more ex pensive amp I'm interested in the as2100 surely they would put more into producing this amp such as better material's would it be like saying a laptop for 500 is just as good as a laptop for 2000?

Why companies make products in first place? To make profit.