Do I need more UMPH? :D

[picture_shooter]

I just moved my audio equipment into a new area (see sig)

I recently got my new Def Tech BP6B's and streaming Pandora (in Stereo mode). I am almost playing at max volume and notice now that my Denon 1611 a/v receiver is shutting off.

Nothing is not hooked up wrong, but I think I maybe over powering the receiver since I am at close to 100% of max volume?

So you guys think I need more power? Should I call over to Emotiva to cure the problem??

 

[TLS Guy]

I just moved my audio equipment into a new area (see sig)

I recently got my new Def Tech BP6B's and streaming Pandora (in Stereo mode). I am almost playing at max volume and notice now that my Denon 1611 a/v receiver is shutting off.

Nothing is not hooked up wrong, but I think I maybe over powering the receiver since I am at close to 100% of max volume?

So you guys think I need more power? Should I call over to Emotiva to cure the problem??

How big is your room? What spl are you achieving? For your hearing's sake you had better know.

If you are at max volume, then your amp will be well out of headroom and clipping a good deal of the time. If you are driving it hard enough to shut it down, then you won't have that unit very long. That is only a 75 watt RMS receiver.

You seem like the sort of chap who will destroy anything no matter who you call. I would imagine you have already shortened the life of your receiver significantly. You really must use gear with sense and sensitivity, maxing out any power amps does not fit that caveat, even close.

If you are at the shut off stage then you need something of at least 250 watts per channel for you front three speakers.

 

[picture_shooter]

Hi TLS,

The room is about 16' (wide) x 20' (deep).

I ran audyssey , my listening area from the front speakers was set to 10'.
My surrounding listening area is 13' (calibrated)


Not sure about the SPL

I don't own an SPL meter
All I know is my ears want more louder (in music), but in Movies I have it much lower though and plenty happy. Just 2-channel stereo I want louder

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi TLS,

The room is about 16' (wide) x 20' (deep).

I ran audyssey , my listening area from the front speakers was set to 10'.
My surrounding listening area is 13' (calibrated)


Not sure about the SPL

I don't own an SPL meter
All I know is my ears want more louder (in music), but in Movies I have it much lower though and plenty happy. Just 2-channel stereo I want louder

Since you need at least 10 db headroom you need a lot more power.

You amps should not be averaging more than about 7 to 8 watts to give you head room free of clipping, so a 150 watt per channel amp will only give you 3 db more power which you will barely notice.

So you need something at least 250 watts per channel.

You really should get an spl meter. If we knew what spl levels you are achieving, it would be easier to tell you how much power you need and how safe that is.

Your room is roughly the same size as mine. I listen to classical music which has much more soft than loud music on the whole. However it makes huge power demands at times, and I have over 2 KW of audio power available and it needs it to have good reserve in the big moments. However I can't imagine using a small fraction of that power on a continuous basis.

So I would get an spl meter and see what spls you are listening at now.

Then remember for every 3db you increase the power you need to double your amp power. You do not want to be listening to average levels above 85 db, or you will go deaf, and no might about it. Peaks of 110 db are OK and may be occasional peaks of 120 db, but not often and best never.

If you want it to sound twice as loud as your 75 watt rig, then you need an amp of 750 watts per channel. Then it might be a contest as to whether you blow you hearing or your speakers first.

The most important advice I have for posts like these is this: - Buy an spl meter and see what level you are listening to now, and make up your mind that you will not listen at unsafe levels.

After you have an spl meter, this information will tell you how much power is appropriate. You also need to pay attention to the power rating of your speakers.

 

[AVRat]

Well for starters, the 1611 doesn't have preouts so you'd need a new receiver as well.

Using code "techbargains" at Electronics Expo, you can p/u a Denon 4311 which should have enough juice for your space for $1400, or a Denon 3311 for $780 and add the Emo XPA-3 FOR $700:
http://www.electronics-expo.com/make...R3311CI/1.html
http://www.electronics-expo.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR4311CI/Denon/AVR4311CI/1.html
http://emotiva.com/xpa3.shtm

 

[STRONGBADF1]

The most important advice I have for posts like these is this: - Buy an spl meter and see what level you are listening to now, and make up your mind that you will not listen at unsafe levels.

After you have an spl meter, this information will tell you how much power is appropriate. You also need to pay attention to the power rating of your speakers.

+1

We need to know how loud you are currently listening at to know if there is a problem or you just like it incredibly loud.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well for starters, the 1611 doesn't have preouts so you'd need a new receiver as well

That does pose a problem for the OP. You would think a poster would check the inputs and outputs on their gear before posting.

I would not want to buy that receiver!

 

[yepimonfire]

with a 91dB sensitivity listening at an 85dB avg. volume and listening to music with 10dB of dynamic range a 75wpc receiver would work fine. now if you are getting up to 110 dB you are definitely running completely out of headroom. i have no idea what kind of music you listen to so it may or may not be compressed within 6dB or even 10 dB of dynamic range but for a loud reference volume you need something heftier then a measly 75wpc receiver. you also have to take into account impedance variations of the speaker, just because you can get 91dB with 1 watt at 1khz doesent mean it won't require much more power at various frequencies.

 

[Ron Temple]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71390

Sounds like the issue might be related to the amp section of your AVR. I saw something similar on a Polk thread.

 

[TLS Guy]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71390

Sounds like the issue might be related to the amp section of your AVR. I saw something similar on a Polk thread.

Yes, I have done some digging. It seems that receiver is a real pig in a poke.

I doubt it pushes more than 20 watts into his speakers.

I did manage to find an impedance curve of his speakers. As I suspected they are are four ohm and sub. The impedance does not reach 8 ohms until nearly 3 kHz, except for tuning peaks. So they are four ohm or less were the power is.

Def Tech do state on their site than NONE of their speakers are to be used with entry level receivers.

I would say they are only suitable for use with highly four ohm capable devices, at other then background levels.

Those speakers will eat his DENON receiver. From triggering protection to failure is a short walk.

Unfortunately the OP has no cheap options. He should probably bite the bullet and go with pre/pro and external amps.

 

[GranteedEV]

For the OP I recommend one of these:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5004/Marantz/SR5004-Dolby-TrueHD-PLIIz/dts-HD-MA-AV-Receiver/1.html

If the 90 watt SR5004 is anything like the "110 watt" SR6004 that Gene measured, which it should at least somewhat be, then we're talking an honest 90wpc into 8 ohm, and around 145-150 watts into four ohms. And if that's still not enough for the dynamics, it should have nice pre-outs. Emotivas are easy to drive with even the most benign of preamps and marantz is good with this stuff IMO.

 

[TLS Guy]

For the OP I recommend one of these:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5004/Marantz/SR5004-Dolby-TrueHD-PLIIz/dts-HD-MA-AV-Receiver/1.html

If the 90 watt SR5004 is anything like the "110 watt" SR6004 that Gene measured, which it should at least somewhat be, then we're talking an honest 90wpc into 8 ohm, and around 145-150 watts into four ohms. And if that's still not enough for the dynamics, it should have nice pre-outs. Emotivas are easy to drive with even the most benign of preamps and marantz is good with this stuff IMO.

I'm really reluctant to recommend factory refurbs with something as complex as a receiver. You take a big chance, as collateral damage can be missed and parts no replaced may have been stressed to fail later.

I would recommend new.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm really reluctant to recommend factory refurbs with something as complex as a receiver. You take a big chance, as collateral damage can be missed and parts no replaced may have been stressed to fail later.

I would recommend new.

A gamble yes(albeit a warrantied one). Myself, I have been using the marantz sr6003 refurb, as well as a refurb laptop, for a decent amount of time now, and while I've of course had "upgraditis" with both, both are still going strong.

Incidentally, the laptop arrived and worked, and a month or two later its monitor stopped functioning properly. I sent it in for repair under warranty, and since then it's been around and I haven't had a single issue with it that wasn't of my own fault.

So Refurbs are always a gamble. One you can never be sure of. But like with any electronic, if it's going to go bad, it's either because you're not taking good care of it, or because a part is defective - something which should pop up well within the warranty period.

Ultimately it's up to a person whether the positives of a refurb (primarily the cost saving) outweight the negatives (not necessarily new, shortened warranty). It's not my place to make the decision for anyone else but myself.

Now a denon refurb from ecost? I'd steer clear!

 

[TLS Guy]

A gamble yes(albeit a warrantied one). Myself, I have been using the marantz sr6003 refurb, as well as a refurb laptop, for a decent amount of time now, and while I've of course had "upgraditis" with both, both are still going strong.

Incidentally, the laptop arrived and worked, and a month or two later its monitor stopped functioning properly. I sent it in for repair under warranty, and since then it's been around and I haven't had a single issue with it that wasn't of my own fault.

So Refurbs are always a gamble. One you can never be sure of. But like with any electronic, if it's going to go bad, it's either because you're not taking good care of it, or because a part is defective - something which should pop up well within the warranty period.

Considering the cost savings, it's not normally my prime option, but can be. You have to weigh the positives and negatives like with any purchase.

That's a reasonable way to look at it. However I'm reluctant to advise it because I don't know how a poster will look at it. So you could say I play it safe.

 

[yepimonfire]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71390

Sounds like the issue might be related to the amp section of your AVR. I saw something similar on a Polk thread.

Be careful with that Polk forum

 

[yepimonfire]

For the OP I recommend one of these:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5004/Marantz/SR5004-Dolby-TrueHD-PLIIz/dts-HD-MA-AV-Receiver/1.html

If the 90 watt SR5004 is anything like the "110 watt" SR6004 that Gene measured, which it should at least somewhat be, then we're talking an honest 90wpc into 8 ohm, and around 145-150 watts into four ohms. And if that's still not enough for the dynamics, it should have nice pre-outs. Emotivas are easy to drive with even the most benign of preamps and marantz is good with this stuff IMO.

Marantz has a good reputation of being able to back up their power claims within about 70% ACD and usually has great pre-amp sections on their receivers. I have one that is 110wpc and i'm absolutely nuts when it comes to high output and i've never run out of amplifier power even driving all channels and routing LFE through the fronts.

 

[picture_shooter]

damn... lol... I always thought for some reason I had pre-outs, LOL's!! Well crap, I guess I got spoiled with using only HDMI and not paying attention to that.

Oh well.....

There is a huge sale on the Pioneer Elite VSX-32 at my local hifi store, so I may go with that, but I am not sold on MCACC compared to audyssey.

I may have to step up and go with another Denon or even Marantz.
I know I been thinking hard about Anthem too .... just a lil steeper than what I really want to spend

Thanks all

 

[picture_shooter]

That does pose a problem for the OP. You would think a poster would check the inputs and outputs on their gear before posting.

I would not want to buy that receiver!

Yea, I originally purchased this receiver along with my Def Tech ProMonitor / Center and I didn't think towards the future of UpGrading to mo' Hungry speakers like the BP6B's.



Since this HT room was recently put together, I been looking @ getting another receiver for the roMonitor / Center in our other living room, but it looks like this 1611 will stay with the original setup and off I go to buy a new receiver.

I do like that Marantz SR5004

That should work well, or I assume better then the Denon 1611 for starters. lol's/
Thanks

Note: I really do not want to ever go 7.1, if that helps any

 

[Seth=L]

The lower end Denon receivers are Sherwood made, they have small power supplies. Like TLS guy, they're probably luck if they can produce 20 watts per channel. If that receiver can achieve 75 watts, it's probably only in two channel mode and for a very short time period.

 

[picture_shooter]

The lower end Denon receivers are Sherwood made, they have small power supplies. Like TLS guy, they're probably luck if they can produce 20 watts per channel. If that receiver can achieve 75 watts, it's probably only in two channel mode and for a very short time period.

Very odd so to say if Denon sells an receiver like this for $400 and can only output 20 watts.

I highly doubt it is 20 watts. it does push my speakers nice even when I set the towers to LARGE / FULL-RANGE. they come alive even w/ sub being off.

I guess one thing I could "do" is crank up the Front speaker DB's.

Right now, by Audyssy's config, it has my front speakers to - 3 (left) and the right @ -5 dbs. I can easily achieve going "louder' sound if I do raising up on the DB's on receiver setup.
Since Def Techs do sound go at a flat-response , I think I always been a tweeter highs kinda guy. I know........... I should have gone w/ horn tweets. lol.

What I will do is play w/ the DB setting on the amp and crank it up little more and that way I do not need to push the amp at higher volume to get more the bright sound I am trying to accomplish.

Thanks