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mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
I've been looking to upgrade my speakers since i have a Pioneer VSX-1015 as a receiver but only 2 Polk Audio R15's as mains. My previous receiver wasnt as good so it went well with the Polks. I've looked around and liked some Athena, JBL and Polk Audio speakers that I've seen. But I started thinking that i like lots of bass and want a pair of speakers than can (but probably won't) be used without a subwoofer and actually sound as if there is a small subwoofer being used. My parents own a pair of Accusound 12 inchers and they rule!! But it''s really hard to find something like that nowdays. I've decided that what I want is a pair of speakers that are 3-way, big woofer 10-15 inch with really good bass response and I don't want to spend 1000$ (I'm still a student so something around 400-500$ including wood to build enclosure etc. would be prefect). I plan on using them primarily for music without surrounds. I live in Ottawa and I found a store that sells components and suposedly also designs speakers. I need help with design, knowing how big or small to make the enclosure and maybe some suggestions on drivers and crossovers. I know there are programs out there that help with this but I dont feel like buying software unless it's really necessary. I haven't done this before and I know its a big step but I love to build stuff and am really good at trial and error. Also if you guys (and gals) think there are some decently priced speakers that meet my demand out there please tell me about them because I don't quite know what I'm getting into and might end up buying a pair in the end.

thanx and sorry for the length

-Alex
 
G

GettinDegreez

Junior Audioholic
Hey there, I have been doing a lot of research into DIY speakers over the past few months, and I've decided...it's tough. The building part isn't so bad as is that picking out what you want and designing it. The biggest part is, if you want to do it right, and get quality components, it's gonna be a little costly. If you're thinking about going ahead with it, I can give you a bunch of websites with information about the drivers, designing the box and crossover, and general design concepts. There is tons of info to sort through, but in the end you should be able to build a speaker for x amount of dollars that sounds as good as a speaker costing 3-4x that much if you do it right.

Here are some good sites
http://ldsg.snippets.org/ (this site has tons of information and links)
http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/frdgroup.htm (lots of good free stuff to help you design your box and crossover)
http://www.parts express.com (good drivers on the cheap and a project showcase to give you some ideas)
http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/(a good page about sound and design in general)

I was actually just browsing on Parts Express and came across this project that could possibly work for you. Comes to about $485 minus the wood and tools. While it's probably not the best sounding speaker out there, it fits the bill, and you can use that as a design base if you want.

http://www.parts express.com/projectshowcase/veritas.htm

I'm not at my home computer and won't be until Monday, so when I get back I can sort through all my bookmarks and give you some more websites or possible recommendations for some good speakers you can buy instead of going the DIY route
 
S

sploo

Full Audioholic
Rip's advice on buying a kit is sound - you can be much more certain what you're building is going to be good.

Also, I'd choose quality drivers (even if that meant smaller bass units) rather than just going for size. Sure, you'll be able to get something that looks good, but the driver quality is critical to the sound of the speaker.

Oh, and decent drivers aren't cheap I'm afraid...

I built a surround setup from speakers by http://wilmslowaudio.co.uk. Wrong country for you, obviously, but many of the drivers are available worldwide. I note that the Linkwitz Orion uses some Seas drivers that are in one of Wilmslow's designs.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I'm thinking of building a theater with THIS kit from Madisound. I think I will buy a pair, build some enclosures, and try them out. If I like them I'll build three more plus a sonotube subwoofer so I have a 5.1 system.
 
S

sploo

Full Audioholic
Hi Hi Ho (why do the Seven Dwarfs come to mind there :p),

That looks like a perfectly acceptable kit. Note that in buying the enclosures you're basically doubling the cost. This is an important point for anyone thinking of building DIY speakers - the cost of making and transporting good cabinets is very expensive (for manufacturers).

Many cheap loudspeakers use boxes made of chipboard (or worse) in an attempt to lower shipping weight. If a manufacturer uses MDF (which, I believe, most of the good ones do) then they're handling and shipping a cumbersome, heavy product, which also chucks out loads of dangerous dust when machined. Obviously, this all adds to the cost you pay.

The point here is that you make your major cost saving by making the boxes yourself. I'd expect the MDF for a pair of those units would cost well under 20USD.

The pdf drawing on the site isn't great, but you basically need to make a box out of straight sided panels. You can ignore the rounded over edges - make a solid, sealed box, and round the edges over on a router table if you've got/can get access to one. Make sure you wear a good dust mask at all times.

You don't have to veneer the boxes (it can be tricky). A light wash of Zinsser B-I-N (a 1pt tin will easily do it), followed by a quick sand with wet-and-dry paper (with some water) will yield a surface that you can easily spray - even with cans.

I'm now using a HVLP system for spraying, but my first speaker projects were all done with tins (and a vastly inferior primer to B-I-N). You can even get automotive places to mix up special 'blends' in cans - I did a few speakers white, with a metallic blue sheen (not as tacky as it sounds).

It's totally up to you, that's the beauty of D-I-Y!
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
That looks like a perfectly acceptable kit. Note that in buying the enclosures you're basically doubling the cost. This is an important point for anyone thinking of building DIY speakers - the cost of making and transporting good cabinets is very expensive (for manufacturers)
I would never buy the boxes. That would take the fun out of it. :) I probably won't end up veneering them either since they will be in a room that is dark most of the time. Who cares what they look like? HERE is the subwoofer I built a while back. I still haven't gotten around to veneering it and it's sitting in my living room. :D
 
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mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
Sweet!

Wow! thanx for all the links and tips! I'll definitely look into them but I've found a place near my house that would design a crossover and cabinet for me acording to the drivers I buy. I've boosted my budget up since they showed me parts that would come to about 800$ Once I have blueprints or photos I'll post them and u guys can tell me what you think.

I've heard this is really good software for designing speakers
http://www.speakerworkshop.com/

This is a pretty cool website with many links
http://i.webring.com/hub?ring=stereospeakers

Another website with useful links and recommendations on books
http://home.earthlink.net/~etunstal/diy.htm

A DIY project with pretty detailed explanations
http://www.fys.uio.no/~magnushj/Spring/
 
M

mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
One more thing

If I wanted to make it a bi-wireable speaker would that complicate it too much? I know my receiver has that option and I would like to take advantage of it. Is it actually worth it? I've never heard bi-wired speakers so I don't have anything to compare.
thanx

Edit: I meant bi-amped!!! My bad.
 
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sploo

Full Audioholic
Hi Ho said:
HERE is the subwoofer I built a while back.
That's not a sub - it's a small house! :eek:

Bet it's fun sitting in that chair :D


mexicanzero said:
If I wanted to make it a bi-wireable speaker would that complicate it too much? I know my receiver has that option and I would like to take advantage of it. Is it actually worth it? I've never heard bi-wired speakers so I don't have anything to compare.
thanx
You'll need to ensure the crossover is split - to separate the high and low paths. I don't believe this is difficult for the crossover designer.

If you ever run the speakers on a single wire system (a single +/- to each box), then just connect the two pairs of terminals on the speaker together (HF+ to LF+, HF- to LF-). DO NOT do this when an amp's connected to the speakers in bi-amp mode.

Does it make a difference? I can't say I can tell any difference with bi-wiring. I bi-amped a pair of DIY speakers (2-way ScanSpeak based boxes with an Arcam AVR300). My perception was that the bass was much more full, but I've never measured it.

It shouldn't cost any more to do, other than another pair of cables to your speakers, so go for it.
 
M

mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
sweet

Excellent that makes me happy. Now it's time to save up money! If I've calculated right i should have enough money in a month during which I will do some more research to find good tips on the bulding part.

thanx to you all for the help

-Alex
 
M

mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
While asking around in other forums I heard that if u had a 100wpc amp and 2biwired fronts that there would be 200wpc going to each front. Is this true?

thanx

-Alex
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
That's a load of BS. Plain and simple. The only difference biwiring is going to make is lowering the resistance of your speaker cables to the mains by a fraction of an ohm.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
jaxvon said:
That's a load of BS. Plain and simple. The only difference biwiring is going to make is lowering the resistance of your speaker cables to the mains by a fraction of an ohm.
No... it also makes a difference in your bank account as you are buying double the speaker cable....I feel sorry for audioquest customers, wait, no I don't :rolleyes:

Sheep
 
M

MBauer

Audioholic
DIY Advice

When I last built a pair of speakers I stuck to two-ways to simply the design and minimaize the impact on the crossovers. I used a ported design to increase bass response. You can probably get by with an 8" woofer (really) since most music does not have really low frequencies. If you shoot for about 30Hz and make very efficient loudspeakers you will get a lot of bass and outrageous voluem levels.

Parts Express is a good source of ideas and building your own cabinets out of 3/4" or 1" MDF will be more than satisfactory.

There is a well known speaker that was built as part of a Georgia Tech EE class that is a 3-way and has very extensive how to plans, diagrams, etc That might well be a very good starting point? Good luck, post your pics when you are finished

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/labsp/
 
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mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
Thanx for the plans I was looking for exactly that! If anyone else has detailed plans I'd like to compare different plans. How do you make a speaker efficient? Does it have to do with the efficiency of the drivers or crossover? And what does "efficiency" mean? I hear alot about it but am not sure what it is exactly. And as for the "difficulty level" the reason I decided to build my own speakers and not just save up to buy some is because I want to keep myself busy. This school year has taken away my social life since all my friends are working or doing homework. So on my spare time, which is normally alot, I get really bored and often end up sleeping. Which has caused me to have some insomnia at night. NOT FUN!! So in the end I want something hard that will take alot of time, but that I can manage to complete without major problems.

thanx for all the help so far

-Alex
 
M

MBauer

Audioholic
mexicanzero said:
Thanx for the plans I was looking for exactly that! If anyone else has detailed plans I'd like to compare different plans. How do you make a speaker efficient? Does it have to do with the efficiency of the drivers or crossover? And what does "efficiency" mean? I hear alot about it but am not sure what it is exactly. And as for the "difficulty level" the reason I decided to build my own speakers and not just save up to buy some is because I want to keep myself busy. This school year has taken away my social life since all my friends are working or doing homework. So on my spare time, which is normally alot, I get really bored and often end up sleeping. Which has caused me to have some insomnia at night. NOT FUN!! So in the end I want something hard that will take alot of time, but that I can manage to complete without major problems.

thanx for all the help so far

-Alex

A very high level defintion of efficiency (usually called sensitivity) is the ratio between sound (output, noise, whatever) and power in. It is expressed as db/watt/meter (sound level/power from amp/listening distance from speaker) so an efficient speaker is 90 db from 1 watt (general) look at driver spec's to determine this.

I would say to use 3/4" medium density fibreboard (MDF) for the speaker enclosure. it is available from big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes. I don't know your carpentry skills but you want to have some basic wood shop tools avaialble; router, drill, table saw, etc.
 
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mexicanzero

Audioholic Intern
I have some woodworking experience since I have built 2 small subwoofer enclosures for 2 6-1/2'' subwoofers I use2 have. I also took a course at school. As for the router, is it what cuts the indents where the driver sits so it mounts flush against the cabinet? Is this really necessary? If so would buying a piece of wood the thickness of the drivers edge and sticking it around the driver be just as good? Beacause I don't thinkI will be using it often enough to go out and buy one. (I'm not sure how much one would be but I was under the impression that they're expensive.)

Any other tips on the building process would be appreciated

thanx

-Alex
 
S

sploo

Full Audioholic
MBauer said:
You can probably get by with an 8" woofer (really) since most music does not have really low frequencies. If you shoot for about 30Hz and make very efficient loudspeakers you will get a lot of bass and outrageous voluem levels.
Absolutely. My mains have 8" drivers, with a ported box, and are producing more than enough (very) low frequency bass for my tastes.

I have tried my setup with a good sub. It did add a bit of extra 'grunt' to explosions on movies, but I didn't feel it was crucial (and I'm sure my neighbour didn't either :D). I don't recall it making any difference to any music I tried.

mexicanzero said:
As for the router, is it what cuts the indents where the driver sits so it mounts flush against the cabinet?
It is. The indents are usually referred to as rabbets. It can also be used to rabbet the edges of your panels so you get a really good clean, tight fit (and to rabbet channels inside the box to fix a brace if you're making a large cabinet.)

mexicanzero said:
Is this really necessary?
I would say it's a good idea, but not critical. I believe there are acoustic issues that make recessing the driver a good idea (edge diffraction?) but I wouldn't worry too much.

You can buy a cheap router, which will probably have a simple circle cutting jig. You can use it to make the rabbet, then plunge all the way through to cut the hole for the driver.
 

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