Dispelling HTPC Myths/Theories

M

maytagman

Audioholic Intern
Greetings my brothers in arms! Here's today's question(s):

I'm trying to dispel a few of the myths/burning questions I've had in the past week whilst building my HTPC. So I'll start with some links to the foundations I used for it. I wanted to build a HTPC so I had modular upgradability to whichever HD-DVD format prevails, since the industry cant ****ing decide already! I'm also using it for a MMORPG I'm violently addicted to.

MSI AM-2 Barebone thingy

For now I've thrown in a DVD-RW drive until a winner is declared in the format war. I purchased the cheapie Olevia 32" 1080i panel from Newegg; sadly, it doesn't have DVI, however, it has VGA and HDMI. For now I will run the integrated video until I can find a suitable PCIe card with HDMI out and HDCP support.
On to the questions:

1) I have tried to retain all sources in digital format (to save thousands on having to buy quality analogue interconnects and devices) until it hits my DAC/Amps. At least, I think this works... A digital signal is a digital signal right? So, the physical act of decoding the 0s and 1s from the disc, and moving them across the pipe to my reciever should be a lossless operation no matter what sound card I'm using? I understand people buy expensive soundcards with good reason, but I'd like to know why.. if the AC97 chipset on that barebone I bought supports digital audio transport, what difference does it make? Does it have to do with decoding the surround information off the disc? All I really need is basic 5.1 support...

2) Quality loss with DVI>HDMI:
Simple question, if I use a DVI>HDMI cable (as the olevia doesn't support DVI in) is there a loss of quality? Again, it SHOULD be an all-digital signal from what I understand... The audio is being routed via optical out to the reciever anyway, I don't care about HDMI audio.

3) HDCP unsupported with DVD>HDMI:
Again, Will having DVD>HDMI adaptor ruin HDCP support at the video card?

4) Superiority of 'media centers':
Of course I'm thankful for the insight provided by some of the manuf's of premade HTPC on the forum. However, I personally have little to gain from the premade solution, as I do require some gaming support, and am on a tighter budget. That said, is there really any gain from the purpose built boxes compared to mine? Keep in mind all I need is the ability to send to the HDTV with at least 1280x768 and 5.1 surround decoding.

5) Suggestions for HDMI/HDCP video card with some chutzpa!
The final battle is this: Is there a 'gold standard' currently for HDMI supporting PCIe cards for HTPC? Hell, is there one that we can verify WORKS with HDMI properly and a standard 1080i HDTV? Ive found a few that are questionable, and a few that are powered by chipsets which may as well be hamster wheels. Surely there's an 'Oppo' of the vidcard world!

Thank you my fine bretheren!
-maytag

-Edit: I lied, its the realtek HD Audio ALC-880 chipset. Whoops! Who cares, it has optical out.
 
superstar

superstar

Junior Audioholic
I was in the same boat as you but decided to get this instead of building an htpc from scratch, this is only good if you already have an okay (in terms of having a dvd burner) pc, all you have to do is transfer the movies/songs from your existing pc.
 
H

HiJon89

Audioholic
maytagman said:
1) I have tried to retain all sources in digital format (to save thousands on having to buy quality analogue interconnects and devices) until it hits my DAC/Amps. At least, I think this works... A digital signal is a digital signal right? So, the physical act of decoding the 0s and 1s from the disc, and moving them across the pipe to my reciever should be a lossless operation no matter what sound card I'm using? I understand people buy expensive soundcards with good reason, but I'd like to know why.. if the AC97 chipset on that barebone I bought supports digital audio transport, what difference does it make? Does it have to do with decoding the surround information off the disc? All I really need is basic 5.1 support...
Upgraded sounds cards are good for gaming and also use less CPU, but for passing a digital signal to the receiver there shouldn't be a difference.

maytagman said:
2) Quality loss with DVI>HDMI:
Simple question, if I use a DVI>HDMI cable (as the olevia doesn't support DVI in) is there a loss of quality? Again, it SHOULD be an all-digital signal from what I understand... The audio is being routed via optical out to the reciever anyway, I don't care about HDMI audio.
DVI->HDMI will leave the video signal unchanged.

maytagman said:
3) HDCP unsupported with DVD>HDMI:
Again, Will having DVD>HDMI adaptor ruin HDCP support at the video card?
If the video card's DVI output is HDCP, then a DVI->HDMI cable will not alter that.

maytagman said:
4) Superiority of 'media centers':
Of course I'm thankful for the insight provided by some of the manuf's of premade HTPC on the forum. However, I personally have little to gain from the premade solution, as I do require some gaming support, and am on a tighter budget. That said, is there really any gain from the purpose built boxes compared to mine? Keep in mind all I need is the ability to send to the HDTV with at least 1280x768 and 5.1 surround decoding.
The only thing you gain with one of those prebuilt HTPC's is the peace of mind of knowing you just helped a computer company's CEO purchase his third yacht.

maytagman said:
5) Suggestions for HDMI/HDCP video card with some chutzpa!
The final battle is this: Is there a 'gold standard' currently for HDMI supporting PCIe cards for HTPC? Hell, is there one that we can verify WORKS with HDMI properly and a standard 1080i HDTV? Ive found a few that are questionable, and a few that are powered by chipsets which may as well be hamster wheels. Surely there's an 'Oppo' of the vidcard world!
Virtually any recent video card will work in 1080i and there won't be noticeable differences in picture quality between them. The main difference will be in gaming performance, which may or may not be a concern depending on what games you plan on playing.
 
A

agabriel

Junior Audioholic
HiJon89 said:
The only thing you gain with one of those prebuilt HTPC's is the peace of mind of knowing you just helped a computer company's CEO purchase his third yacht.
That will not remain entirely true. Vista, if you ever get to it, will throw a wrench into the system. It will throttle you and not allow you to decode or play every format unless all of the drivers are properly signed by a manufacturer, not just a widget producer. So be careful if you ever plan oin upgrading to Vista...

Anthony
 
H

HiJon89

Audioholic
agabriel said:
That will not remain entirely true. Vista, if you ever get to it, will throw a wrench into the system. It will throttle you and not allow you to decode or play every format unless all of the drivers are properly signed by a manufacturer, not just a widget producer. So be careful if you ever plan oin upgrading to Vista...

Anthony
So you go to the manufacturer's website and download Vista drivers.... wrench removed :D
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
HiJon89 said:
Virtually any recent video card will work in 1080i and there won't be noticeable differences in picture quality between them. The main difference will be in gaming performance, which may or may not be a concern depending on what games you plan on playing.
I beg to differ.

Different video cards give *wildly* different picture quality. Low-end cards do not have the video processing capabilities of their bigger brothers.

Also, the vast majority of video cards are not HDCP compatible.

I was completely unable to get anything approaching acceptable picture quality out of a Geforce 6100. My Geforce 6800GS, while good, does not compare to an Oppo on DVD quality.
 
M

maytagman

Audioholic Intern
Nice.. I was hoping this would be the answer.
Don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect for the htpc builders, and they have their place, but their market isnt network engineers or analysts. Their market is my mom, who cant operate machines as complex as a fulcrum or a wedge, let alone computer parts :3

With regards to the 6100, it doesnt have the HD support the 6150 does, that's the distinction iirc. The 6150 was the nforce designed integrated graphics subsystem for htpcs.

Well, after setup tomorrow we'll see how she runs. Now the biggest challenge is finding a DVI>HDMI cable in a local retailer thats under $5000.

Bestbuy has a DVI>HDMI *ADAPTER* for $35, lmfao. What a crock.
Finding a low profile PCIe card with HDCP support and a high performance chipset ought to be fun....
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I'm not sure what you mean by HD support, but the 6100 ran my plasma at 1366x768 and displayed 720p content just fine. It was something about PureVideo video enhancement.

The 6150 does NOT support HDCP.

Anyway, good luck!
 
pzaur

pzaur

Audioholic Samurai
HDMI/DVI cable.

Should work just fine. Just make sure the DVI end will fit into the female end.http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023102&p_id=2286&style=&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

If you want something with a snazzier jacket:
http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MCV600HDMIDVI4

This would also work just fine:
http://www.************.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=181-741

I've ordered equipment/accessories from all three companies and had nothing but positive experiences with them.

-pat
 
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M

maytagman

Audioholic Intern
Well, got it all set up over lunch.. It looked great even at the default windows resolution. However, after installing the latest nvidia drivers, the picture looks terrible... Grainy.. nasty, blech over the DVI>HDMI connection. Brand new cable... and since it happened after the drivers it leads me to believe its a calibration issue.

I guess I'll uninstall it and maybe try rolling back to a few other drivers... Meh.
 
M

maytagman

Audioholic Intern
Well, rolled back to older drivers, which seems to have fixed the weird sharpness problem, but now, there's vertical areas of the screen where the black is bolder, like when reading this text... It fades in and out of bold and not bold. It's bizzare. I guess the tweaking continues... I suppose these are the problems that you dont deal with when you buy a pre-built... :/
 
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