A

Audiophile Heretic

Audioholic Intern
I listen to TV and movies more than music, but the sound is more important to me when I listen to music and I enjoy it more. I have been playing with Hafler Quad since before home theater and matrix surround when it was VHS Hi-Fi. I am now to the point that I am tired of pushing buttons to select the right decoder for the program or source, and speakers and wire all over the place just for some gimmicky stupid sounding artificial effect. I think I prefer two channel audio to all this surround sound nonsense. I just read an interview with David Chesky and started an account on HDtracks.com. sonicscoop.com/opinionated-audio-david-chesky-on-binaural-recording-the-business-of-specialized-sound
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I listen to TV and movies more than music, but the sound is more important to me when I listen to music and I enjoy it more. I have been playing with Hafler Quad since before home theater and matrix surround when it was VHS Hi-Fi. I am now to the point that I am tired of pushing buttons to select the right decoder for the program or source, and speakers and wire all over the place just for some gimmicky stupid sounding artificial effect. I think I prefer two channel audio to all this surround sound nonsense. I just read an interview with David Chesky and started an account on HDtracks.com. sonicscoop.com/opinionated-audio-david-chesky-on-binaural-recording-the-business-of-specialized-sound
Like everything in life there is the correct and the wrong way to go about any task. It is clear to me you are on the wrong road.
 
A

Audiophile Heretic

Audioholic Intern
Like everything in life there is the correct and the wrong way to go about any task. It is clear to me you are on the wrong road.
My path is absolutely transparent.

Listeners hear the direction and distance to sound sources by natural auditory spatial cues Interaural Level Difference (ILD) and Interaural Time Difference (ITD). ILD due to head shadow and ear orientation are high frequency differences. ITD due to ear spacing and the different distance from each ear to sound sources are low frequency differences. ILD and ITD correlate and change consistently with the listener's head motion. Head motion differentiates directions in front of the listener from directions behind the listener that may have similar ILD and ITD cues.

Stereo:

Stereo recording is like painting. Painted images are artificial. Painting styles may be realism, impressionism, expressionism, or abstract. Stereo soundstage and imaging illusions are artificial artistic expressions of the recording engineer.

Two or more audio signal channels are mapped one audio channel to one speaker position.

Left and right ears hear natural spatial cues ILD, ITD, and head motion that locate speakers.

Any number of microphones or recorded audio tracks are mixed to audio signal channels.

Artificial stereo channel level and time differences place phantom stereophonic illusions between left and right speakers.

Artificial stereo channel level and time differences may be created electronically or by directional microphone orientation and microphone spacing.

Stereo channel time differences created by microphone spacing may exceed natural Interaural Time Difference ITD.

Close microphone perspectives do not replicate realistic distant left and right ear perspectives.

When left and right speakers are equal in level and time (L=R) and the listener is equal distance between speakers, a phantom center stereophonic illusion is heard from a direction between left and right speakers if speakers are not too far apart.

Two speakers do not sound like one speaker. A phantom center stereophonic illusion does not sound the same as one speaker between left and right speakers.

When left and right speakers are equal in level and time (L=R) and the listener is closer to one speaker, sound is heard from the direction of the closer (earlier) speaker.

The sound from the closer or earlier speaker does not sound the same as the sound from one speaker.

Amplitude cannot correct time. The stereo channel balance control cannot produce a phantom center stereophonic illusion between speakers that are not equal in time.

Natural high frequency level differences ILD and low frequency time phase differences ITD correlate. Left and right speaker time differences with no correlated high frequency level differences do not sound natural.

Natural spatial cues that locate speakers limit artificial stereophonic illusions to directions between left and right speakers. Sound is heard from the direction of one speaker or from a direction between left and right speakers. No stereo channel level or time differences can produce a phantom stereophonic illusion heard from a direction to the left of the left speaker or to the right of the right speaker or behind, above, or below the listener.

No phantom center stereophonic illusion can be heard from a direction between front and back speakers or between vertical up and down speakers. Quadraphonics and surround sound are independent front and back stereophonic illusions between left and right speaker pairs.

Phase differences are time differences. Stereo channel polarity inversion is not a natural phenomenon and does not sound natural.

Multi-channel surround sound compensates for the limitations of mapping audio channels to the audible positions of speakers with more speakers at different directions.

Stereo channel level and time differences are properties of the recording. Devices that provide identical and independent audio signal paths do not create stereo channel level or time differences heard as stereophonic soundstage and imaging illusions.

When the same audio signal (L=R) is sent to two identical amplifier channels driving identical speakers through identical speaker wires, disconnecting the audio signal from one amplifier input sounds the same as disconnecting the speaker from one amplifier output. Identical and independent amplifier channels and speaker wires do not create stereo channel level and time differences heard as stereophonic soundstage and imaging illusions.

The same audio signal (L=R) sent to two identical amplifier channels driving identical speakers through identical speaker wires sounds the same as two identical speakers driven by one amplifier channel. Identical and independent amplifier channels do not create stereo channel level and time differences heard as stereophonic soundstage and imaging illusions.

Binaural:

Binaural recording is like photography. The musical performance is the art.

Two ears are left and right. Left and right ears naturally hear all directions, horizontal and vertical.

Two microphones and two audio signal channels are mapped to left and right ears.

Two microphones simulate left and right ear directionality, directional orientation, spacing, and perspective. Binaural recording simulates natural Interaural Level Difference (ILD) and Interaural Time Difference (ITD).

Headphones isolate left and right audio channels to left and right ears.

Headphones move with the listener's head. Sound source directions in headphones move with the listener's head.

Sound passes around any acoustically small object. Acoustically small objects width is one quarter sound wavelength or less. Low frequency Interaural Level Differences do not occur naturally. Low frequency stereo channel level differences in headphones do not sound natural.

Stereo channel time differences created by spaced microphones may exceed natural Interaural Time Difference and sound unnatural in headphones.

Multi-channel surround sound may sound more exciting, but binaural sounds real. Two channel stereo and binaural require a lot less playback hardware.

Stereo crosstalk cancellation attempts to isolate the left audio channel to the left ear and the right audio channel to the right ear, like headphones, by cancelling the sound from the left speaker to the right ear and sound from the right speaker to the left ear. Crosstalk cancelation with speakers may not be complete, producing unrealistic artifacts, like some forms of 3D video. Crosstalk cancellation more strictly limits the number and position of listeners. Head motion is relative to speakers, changing cues for directions behind the listener into cues for directions in front of the listener, limiting soundstage to less than the front 180° horizontal azimuth. Like headphones, low frequency Interaural Level Differences are not natural and don't sound natural. Head shadow and ear directional orientation prevent high frequency crosstalk.
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Stereo recording is like painting. Painted images are artificial. Painting styles may be realism, impressionism, expressionism, or abstract. Stereo soundstage and imaging illusions are artificial artistic expressions of the recording engineer.
This comes to mind.

1669284515479.png
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
My path is absolutely transparent.

Listeners hear the direction and distance to sound sources by natural auditory spatial cues Interaural Level Difference (ILD) and Interaural Time Difference (ITD). ILD due to head shadow and ear orientation are high frequency differences. ITD due to ear spacing and the different distance from each ear to sound sources are low frequency differences. ILD and ITD correlate and change consistently with the listener's head motion. Head motion differentiates directions in front of the listener from directions behind the listener that may have similar ILD and ITD cues.

Stereo:

Stereo recording is like painting. Painted images are artificial. Painting styles may be realism, impressionism, expressionism, or abstract. Stereo soundstage and imaging illusions are artificial artistic expressions of the recording engineer.

Two or more audio signal channels are mapped one audio channel to one speaker position.

Left and right ears hear natural spatial cues ILD, ITD, and head motion that locate speakers.

Any number of microphones or recorded audio tracks are mixed to audio signal channels.

Artificial stereo channel level and time differences place phantom stereophonic illusions between left and right speakers.

Artificial stereo channel level and time differences may be created electronically or by directional microphone orientation and microphone spacing.

Stereo channel time differences created by microphone spacing may exceed natural Interaural Time Difference ITD.

Close microphone perspectives do not replicate realistic distant left and right ear perspectives.

When left and right speakers are equal in level and time (L=R) and the listener is equal distance between speakers, a phantom center stereophonic illusion is heard from a direction between left and right speakers if speakers are not too far apart.

Two speakers do not sound like one speaker. A phantom center stereophonic illusion does not sound the same as one speaker between left and right speakers.

When left and right speakers are equal in level and time (L=R) and the listener is closer to one speaker, sound is heard from the direction of the closer (earlier) speaker.

The sound from the closer or earlier speaker does not sound the same as the sound from one speaker.

Amplitude cannot correct time. The stereo channel balance control cannot produce a phantom center stereophonic illusion between speakers that are not equal in time.

Natural high frequency level differences ILD and low frequency time phase differences ITD correlate. Left and right speaker time differences with no correlated high frequency level differences do not sound natural.

Natural spatial cues that locate speakers limit artificial stereophonic illusions to directions between left and right speakers. Sound is heard from the direction of one speaker or from a direction between left and right speakers. No stereo channel level or time differences can produce a phantom stereophonic illusion heard from a direction to the left of the left speaker or to the right of the right speaker or behind, above, or below the listener.

No phantom center stereophonic illusion can be heard from a direction between front and back speakers or between vertical up and down speakers. Quadraphonics and surround sound are independent front and back stereophonic illusions between left and right speaker pairs.

Phase differences are time differences. Stereo channel polarity inversion is not a natural phenomenon and does not sound natural.

Multi-channel surround sound compensates for the limitations of mapping audio channels to the audible positions of speakers with more speakers at different directions.

Stereo channel level and time differences are properties of the recording. Devices that provide identical and independent audio signal paths do not create stereo channel level or time differences heard as stereophonic soundstage and imaging illusions.

When the same audio signal (L=R) is sent to two identical amplifier channels driving identical speakers through identical speaker wires, disconnecting the audio signal from one amplifier input sounds the same as disconnecting the speaker from one amplifier output. Identical and independent amplifier channels and speaker wires do not create stereo channel level and time differences heard as stereophonic soundstage and imaging illusions.

The same audio signal (L=R) sent to two identical amplifier channels driving identical speakers through identical speaker wires sounds the same as two identical speakers driven by one amplifier channel. Identical and independent amplifier channels do not create stereo channel level and time differences heard as stereophonic soundstage and imaging illusions.

Binaural:

Binaural recording is like photography. The musical performance is the art.

Two ears are left and right. Left and right ears naturally hear all directions, horizontal and vertical.

Two microphones and two audio signal channels are mapped to left and right ears.

Two microphones simulate left and right ear directionality, directional orientation, spacing, and perspective. Binaural recording simulates natural Interaural Level Difference (ILD) and Interaural Time Difference (ITD).

Headphones isolate left and right audio channels to left and right ears.

Headphones move with the listener's head. Sound source directions in headphones move with the listener's head.

Sound passes around any acoustically small object. Acoustically small objects width is one quarter sound wavelength or less. Low frequency Interaural Level Differences do not occur naturally. Low frequency stereo channel level differences in headphones do not sound natural.

Stereo channel time differences created by spaced microphones may exceed natural Interaural Time Difference and sound unnatural in headphones.

Multi-channel surround sound may sound more exciting, but binaural sounds real. Two channel stereo and binaural require a lot less playback hardware.

Stereo crosstalk cancellation attempts to isolate the left audio channel to the left ear and the right audio channel to the right ear, like headphones, by cancelling the sound from the left speaker to the right ear and sound from the right speaker to the left ear. Crosstalk cancelation with speakers may not be complete, producing unrealistic artifacts, like some forms of 3D video. Crosstalk cancellation more strictly limits the number and position of listeners. Head motion is relative to speakers, changing cues for directions behind the listener into cues for directions in front of the listener, limiting soundstage to less than the front 180° horizontal azimuth. Like headphones, low frequency Interaural Level Differences are not natural and don't sound natural. Head shadow and ear directional orientation prevent high frequency crosstalk.
@TLS Guy @lovinthehd @MrBoat
To the OP:
If you wish to lecture @TLS Guy on the technical aspects of listening to music, you my brand new AH member, have picked the wrong guy to try that approach with. If you wish to try and match technical systems expertise with someone here, again, you picked the wrong guy in @TLS Guy to try that. If there is one guy here who will give you his honest, blunt, exceedingly blunt at times, opinion its him. Read his bio at the end of his note. Look at his equipment. Take a quick scan of the type of material he posts. His opinions are solid.

To quote Jim Croce,
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with him
(my edit)

I think your idea of going to stereo 2.0 or 2.1 is solid. Made that same choice myself a decade ago. Many here favor the simple joy of stereo. "Don't go to stereo" is not what @TLS Guy said. He said he didn't care for your approach. I would have to agree. Starting off with a lecture on listening to a crowd that does it everyday is a suboptimal approach.
 
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