Discrete Subwoofer Outputs

[MR.MAGOO]

Do you have an AVR with a discrete subwoofer output feature, I'm wondering if it's a good reason to upgrade from my Yamaha RX-A1020 to one of their newest models, or a Denon/Marantz. Or maybe save some $$$ and upgrade my subs? My system is below in the signature.

Current subs: Two of these Definitive Technology ProSub 800, 8 inch front firing, 300 watt .

 

[lovinthehd]

You want an avr that can set level and delay separately for two subs? I use a Denon with such...

 

[snakeeyes]

Do you have an AVR with a discrete subwoofer output feature, I'm wondering if it's a good reason to upgrade from my Yamaha RX-A1020 to one of their newest models, or a Denon/Marantz. Or maybe save some $$$ and upgrade my subs? My system is below in the signature.

Current subs: Two of these Definitive Technology ProSub 800, 8 inch front firing, 300 watt .

The discrete sub outs isn’t earth shattering. My Yamaha 2060 has that. I would look at upgrading your center channel if movies and tv are important first.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW if you think discrete subwoofer outputs means "stereo" output, I don't know of any avr that provides for that with pre-outs.

 

[snakeeyes]

FWIW if you think discrete subwoofer outputs means "stereo" output, I don't know of any avr that provides for that with pre-outs.

The 2060 has separate adjustments per sub but distance isn’t a big deal to adjust separately. I haven’t played with the other adjustments. I would use mono rather than stereo in the setup. That’s what Gene recommends in the 5100 preamp YouTube video. YMMV

 

[M Code]

Over the last several years we have sold/installed many different brands HT systems using (2) subwoofers...
Though each brand have products that have (2) subwoofer outputs the majority are simply wiring the (2) subwoofers in parallel...
IMHO..
EQ for multiple subwoofers is a very complex procedure, by far the best EQ software we have found for this was the SW developed by Harman & Dr.Toole's R&D team. This was implemented in certain HK, Lexicon and JBL Synthesis processors & AVRs. The SW would sweep each subwoofer and adjust each independendly for phase, level & frequency and then merge these together accordingly. Since the subwoofers low frequency performance are crucial for the HT system soundstage, 1 should be prepared to try various subwoofer locations to achieve the best final results. 1 reason I think the Harman SW was the best is that it was developed/programmed by acoustic engineers rather than electronic hardware engineers who had incredible background acoustic system design experiences from JBL both from the pro and consumer biz.
A crucial point is to use the same brand/model subwoofers for these system, if one wants more technical info google multiple subwoofer JBL white papers by Dr.Toole, Dr.Olive, Todd Welti. Note that this team has been working with multiple subwoofers for >18 years...

Just my $0.02...

 

[lovinthehd]

The 2060 has separate adjustments per sub but distance isn’t a big deal to adjust separately. I haven’t played with the other adjustments. I would use mono rather than stereo in the setup. That’s what Gene recommends in the 5100 preamp YouTube video. YMMV

Distance and delay are the same thing, it is somewhat important depending on your subs/location and likely the only other adjustment is level in any case. There isn't stereo LFE nor much actual stereo content in the sub range in many recordings either.

Over the last several years we have sold/installed many different brands HT systems using (2) subwoofers...
Though each brand have products that have (2) subwoofer outputs the majority are simply wiring the (2) subwoofers in parallel...
IMHO..
EQ for multiple subwoofers is a very complex procedure, by far the best EQ software we have found for this was the SW developed by Harman & Dr.Toole's R&D team. This was implemented in certain HK, Lexicon and JBL Synthesis processors & AVRs. The SW would sweep each subwoofer and adjust each independendly for phase, level & frequency and then merge these together accordingly. Since the subwoofers low frequency performance are crucial for the HT system soundstage, 1 should be prepared to try various subwoofer locations to achieve the best final results. 1 reason I think the Harman SW was the best is that it was developed/programmed by acoustic engineers rather than electronic hardware engineers who had incredible background acoustic system design experiences from JBL both from the pro and consumer biz.
A crucial point is to use the same brand/model subwoofers for these system, if one wants more technical info google multiple subwoofer white papers by Dr.Toole, Dr.Olive, Todd Welti. Note that this team has been working with multiple subwoofers for >18 years...

Just my $0.02...

When you say it adjusted frequency you're saying it adjusted eq for each sub separately? That hasn't generally proven effective...

 

[snakeeyes]

Distance and delay are the same thing, it is somewhat important depending on your subs/location and likely the only other adjustment is level in any case. There isn't stereo LFE nor much actual stereo content in the sub range in many recordings either.



When you say it adjusted frequency you're saying it adjusted eq for each sub separately? That hasn't generally proven effective...

Hmm then I may take advantage of moving the 2060 to my living room which has dual subs, after I upgrade the theater room but probably not for a year. I am hoping the Yamaha 3090 will be hdmi 2.1.

 

[M Code]

Distance and delay are the same thing, it is somewhat important depending on your subs/location and likely the only other adjustment is level in any case. There isn't stereo LFE nor much actual stereo content in the sub range in many recordings either.



When you say it adjusted frequency you're saying it adjusted eq for each sub separately? That hasn't generally proven effective...

Can't say exactly what parameters they were measuring/adjusting but can tell U in my opinion the SW did an incredible job for improving problematic rooms. But as I mentioned, sometime just changing the subwoofer's position totally changed the end results.. Note that in their EQ SW certain later versions would do both near-field and far-field sweeps.
IMHO...
Dr.Toole & Dr.Olive are (2) of the more experienced acoustic R&D experts in the industry, but now most of their research and development efforts are going into headphones... Some may have different opinions about them and JBL but over the years they have received significant endorsement for their work.

Again I think since there has not been any circulated reviews for the various EQ SW available, 1 often finds there are multiple, but unsubstantiated opinions which 1 sounds better. I do know in my experience supporting certain Harman projects they did do some extensive, internal competitive comparisons for the various competitive EQ systems before finalizing their SW release, but did rev it a couple of times later.. Plus I recall 1 session we participated in had Matt from Trinnov come in and demonstrate their pro EQ system, and at the time we were very impressed with its performance..

Just my $0.02..

 

[TLS Guy]

FWIW if you think discrete subwoofer outputs means "stereo" output, I don't know of any avr that provides for that with pre-outs.

That is because you would never use multiple subs except mono. The reason is that you just exacerbate room modes if you do that.

 

[lovinthehd]

That is because you would never use multiple subs except mono. The reason is that you just exacerbate room modes if you do that.

Agreed. There are those that want (or think they want) stereo subs, so just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[j_garcia]

Agreed. There are those that want (or think they want) stereo subs, so just thought I'd throw it out there.

I think it is a bit of a misunderstanding. Some users may think there is a difference in signal between Sub 1 and Sub 2 when there are two outputs. IMO, you are correct, that's not the case, with the exception of different calibrations for AVRs that have that capability.