Dilemma: Good HD Proj. + Goo systems OR Lower-end Proj + nice screen

[Gatcod]

I'm starting to layout my home theater system in the basement of my house. I'm torn about buying a nice HD projector with a lower-end screen or an "OK" HD projector and a nice screen.

Here are my constraints: Small kids (and they love the basement) and a $2,300 budget for Projector + screen

The overall size of my room is 15' Wide X 21' Deep so I have plenty to work with. Also, the wall I plan to project onto is 9' Wide X 7' Tall. The couch will be about 13' - 15' from the screen. The room can be made totally dark (there are no windows in the room) so I don't need a very bright projector. Attached are some pics of my space (The wall behind the TV is where I plan to project onto).

The setup I'm leaning towards is the Panasonic PT-AE4000U ($1999) with a Goo Systems paint on screen. I'm pretty handy with construction stuff so sanding the wall and painting on the screen will be easy for me. The big reason for this setup is kids. I don't want to have a $700 fixed screen on the wall where the kids will likely play indoor football. With the Goo Systems, it's more durable and if they mark up the wall, I can just touch it up with the paint.

The other option is a $1500 projector and a $500 - $800 fixed screen. For this setup I would get the Epson PL Home Cinema 6100 ($1,599) or something equivalent and a Carada or Draper ONYX fixed screen

Any opinions one way or the other? I know a screen is important, but does a Goo Systems paint on screen, applied correctly, work pretty well?

Thanks

 

[BMXTRIX]

I think people underestimate the time involved in making your own screen. Yes, you can do it, but it requires a good deal of sanding and spackling to actually get a wall to be truly flat. If you were to DIY I would suggest that you use one of the DIY methods mentioned over at AVS. Laminate board is one of the better 'painted' options, while blackout cloth is a very good framed option.

On the other hand - look at what about $300 buys you...
http://www.htdepot.com/SearchResults.asp?cat=91&RefineBy_Manufacturer=&RefineBy_Price=&RefineBy_93=&RefineBy_87=&RefineBy_1=9&RefineBy_36=&Search=

Specifically -
http://www.htdepot.com/Focupix_Widescreen_Fixed_Frame_Screen_115_White_p/ff169lt-110mw.htm

That's a 110" screen for $310.

It may put you a few bucks over budget, but it gives you a fully velvet lined, decent screen, of pretty solid quality for the money, then leaves you the cash to get the Panasonic projector to go along with it.

Just my 2 cents, but that's EXACTLY what I would be doing.

Making a screen is a time consuming project, and I've got better things to do with my time. I also like the really nice look of the black velvet framed screens - which is the majority of your cost with any fixed frame screen.

 

[Gatcod]

Yeah, I'm just starting to look into this stuff, and I'm thinking it may be hard to find the time I'd need for a DIY screen with kids and work. It might be worth it to just pony up and buy a fixed screen. I think I saw an EZframe one on Amazon for $350 a few days ago (I think that's a "decent" screen... from poking around here).

By the way, I posted this question here and then remembered there was a section on AVS forum that had DIY Screens (I just registered over there). So, even though I posted over here, I figured that forum may be the better place for my question. I hope that doesn't offend anyone (I'm not trying to "multiple post" to get more replies... everyone over here is plenty helpful).

 

[lsiberian]

I think people underestimate the time involved in making your own screen. Yes, you can do it, but it requires a good deal of sanding and spackling to actually get a wall to be truly flat. If you were to DIY I would suggest that you use one of the DIY methods mentioned over at AVS. Laminate board is one of the better 'painted' options, while blackout cloth is a very good framed option.

On the other hand - look at what about $300 buys you...
http://www.htdepot.com/SearchResults.asp?cat=91&RefineBy_Manufacturer=&RefineBy_Price=&RefineBy_93=&RefineBy_87=&RefineBy_1=9&RefineBy_36=&Search=

Specifically -
http://www.htdepot.com/Focupix_Widescreen_Fixed_Frame_Screen_115_White_p/ff169lt-110mw.htm

That's a 110" screen for $310.

It may put you a few bucks over budget, but it gives you a fully velvet lined, decent screen, of pretty solid quality for the money, then leaves you the cash to get the Panasonic projector to go along with it.

Just my 2 cents, but that's EXACTLY what I would be doing.

Making a screen is a time consuming project, and I've got better things to do with my time. I also like the really nice look of the black velvet framed screens - which is the majority of your cost with any fixed frame screen.

If you are good with wood and like building things a DIY project is a better choice IMO.

If you stink with wood and hate building things. Buy a screen.
I will build my own screen most likely, but I've got the tools and desire(down the road)

 

[basspig]

I agree with the DiY approach for most things, but in this case, you may want a retractable screen that gets out of harm's way.

On the projector front, you may be able to get a much nicer projector, used, on eBay. I landed an InFocus IN82 (street price $5,400) for $1,425 with 82 hours on it. Granted, that was sheer luck it does illustrate that there are deals out there, if you shop at the right time. You've got to consider the economy and that many people may be scrapping their HT builds in favor of staying in their homes another month or two in the face of job loss.

What I did at The Bass Pig's Lair last July cost a grand total of $2,500. That bought raw material fabrics, a DiY screen from SeymourAV Products, lumber, hardware, a projector, and furniture. It was a whole lotta' work, but it was well worth the effort!

 

[Gatcod]

Is the performance of manual retractables screens good?

Basspig,
I'm thinking a manual retractable may be a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know what the downsides are about manual retractables? They seem very inexpensive. Will I still get "almost as much" performance from a retractable compared to a decent fixed screen. The screen I was looking at online was a "Draper Accuscreen"... it won "best of budget" on some website.

Regarding buying projectors on Ebay... were you concerned with shipping such a high-end item? I mean buying something small and durable (i.e. iPod) on ebay makes sense, but something as high-end and somewhat bulky as a HD projector would make me leary. Also, you'd have to trust the person would pack it well. Actually, maybe I should check my local Craigslist...

Thanks all for the help.

 

[basspig]

Basspig,
I'm thinking a manual retractable may be a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know what the downsides are about manual retractables? They seem very inexpensive. Will I still get "almost as much" performance from a retractable compared to a decent fixed screen. The screen I was looking at online was a "Draper Accuscreen"... it won "best of budget" on some website.

Regarding buying projectors on Ebay... were you concerned with shipping such a high-end item? I mean buying something small and durable (i.e. iPod) on ebay makes sense, but something as high-end and somewhat bulky as a HD projector would make me leary. Also, you'd have to trust the person would pack it well. Actually, maybe I should check my local Craigslist...

Thanks all for the help.

There are several good retractable screens on the market. I don't think there are any real disadvantages, unless you have a lot of fans blowing in your room. My friend has one and it works great. I think you will be pleased with a number of available options in that category of screen. And you'll have the peace of mind that it's safe when rolled up, no matter what the kids are doing in the room.

I wasn't too concerned with the projector shipment. The seller did have the original carton, and it came through in perfect condition. I do realize I must have had very good luck, since the price was what you might call 'too good to be true', but the lack of bidders coupled with an ethical seller who realized that he was obligated to complete the deal--even if it meant getting less money than he might have wanted, made this work out to my advantage. My point is, if you have the luxury of patience, and the willingness to survey the market regularly, you can find fantastic deals. Projectors are difficult to sell, so the buyer is often at an advantage.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would never buy a manual roll up screen unless you truly are ready to throw that money away and replace it, like clockwork, every year...

http://www.bigscreenforums.com/forum_topic.cfm?which=3448

The reality is that roll up, non-tab-tensioned screens will gave waves in the fabric over time. Some are better about it than others, but it still won't provide nearly the quality that a fixed screen, painted screen, blackout cloth, or tab-tensioned screen will give you.

I've used screens from Draper, DaLite, Stewart, Carada, and Focupix. I've also built a blackout cloth screen myself (with excellent results!). The fixed screens from Carada are easily as nice in build as what I've seen from Stewart, but Stewart has some nicer surfaces available. Focupix wasn't built as nice, but the material was decent, and it was well worth the money. The DIY screen was nice, but took about 10 hours to build, including the velvet wrapped frame, and cost over $100 easily. I wouldn't do it again considering that Focupix screens are easily comparible and more similar to a pro model vs. a DIY model.

I would consider them over building a screen because their quality is solid enough and they are far easier, and far more professional than most DIY options. Keep in mind that many DIYers build a screen, then don't know how to make a velvet frame to cover the screen and to square it off properly. They may just use velvet tape, which looks decent, but not as good as a proper aluminum frame. Also, the screen often can't be removed or packed up if you move.

I'm a huge fan of Carada, but would strongly recommend Focupix based upon your budget. I would also ask them about getting replacement screen material. You may find that you can get replacement material for 50 or 100 bucks and then you have a back up easily available if you do run into issues while still owning one of the best possible projection formats available to you.

 

[Gatcod]

but would strongly recommend Focupix based upon your budget

I know I'm looking to save money, but that sub $300 Focupix fixed frame 115" 16:9 screen seems too good to be true. I'm not too concerned about the frame construction, but what about the actual screen material? Is it good quality? Will I get a decent image out of it? I did some searches on Focupix, but I couldn't find anything about the performance of screen itself (side by side comparison, etc).

Thanks

 

[BMXTRIX]

It's an honest and fair question.

Scarily enough HTDepot is actually right down the street from my office here in Chantilly, Virginia - just outside of Washington DC. You always think of these 'cheap' places being located in low-rent areas of the country or in MAJOR cities like NYC. But, one of the guys I work with told me to check them out.

I went by there and saw their screens, then I got hit with a request for a low budget, FAST turnaround job and instead of going to Carada for the screen, like I typically do, I went to HTDepot and picked up a Focupix screen.

I wrote up a full review of it here...
http://www.bigscreenforums.com/forum_topic.cfm?which=13179

And Audioholics got their non-tab-tensioned screen and you can find the post on it here...
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43821

I think, for the money, it actually is to good to be true... and yet, it is true.

I will buy from them again when I have a client who is on a tight budget, and I will do so with confidence. I will also recommend them, and anyone that knows what an opinionated schmuck I am will understand that my approval of stuff doesn't come lightly.

 

[lsiberian]

I know I'm looking to save money, but that sub $300 Focupix fixed frame 115" 16:9 screen seems too good to be true. I'm not too concerned about the frame construction, but what about the actual screen material? Is it good quality? Will I get a decent image out of it? I did some searches on Focupix, but I couldn't find anything about the performance of screen itself (side by side comparison, etc).

Thanks

BMX won't recommend junk. He's our foremost expert on Projectors and Screens. IOTW his suggestions are spot on.

If this is your first projection system I must suggest you get the Projector first and project it on the wall or a white sheet just to get an idea of what size screen you really want. Another option is to base it off where you prefer to sit in a movie theater?

BTW you can get a pretty solid 1080p projector(Optoma HD20) for 1k. It's just not as flexible with placement and lens shifting. It's still light years ahead of the technology even just a few years ago.

 

[jostenmeat]

FWIW, a Dalite High Power manual is an idea. There is no material that is more resistant to waving that I know, and any existing waving is much harder, if not impossible, to detect.

It falls into the budget easily.

It also rejects offaxis ambient light better than any other material.

There are other issues, OTOH. You'd ideally want to have the projector lower, and ideally darken the back wall (for it's retroreflective). It is also extremely bright, but that may work out in this very white room.

Lastly, the viewing will only really work for the main couch, and not the side couch, again due to the retroreflective nature.

Just wanted to put that plug in. There are not a few who say that if it has to be manual, this material is it.

Extremely affordable. I'd only get it if it HAS to be a roll up within the budget, and that the actual screen properties are desired.

It's what I use in a bat cave, and it's amazing. However, I bought it because I wanted to supersize, with a lower lumens PJ than the ones you are looking at.

 

[Gatcod]

BMX, I appreciate the helpful remarks. That Focupix screen sounds like a good idea if I go the fixed (and budget) route.

Also, thanks Isiberian for making the suggestion to get the proj. first and then determine a size. That's not a bad idea. My plan was to fill up the wall entirely, but the wife may think that's overkill. Probably better to test it out and then pick out a screen size.

Overall, a tab-tensioned electric may fit the bill. I do want a fixed, but the big problem is kids. I can see my kid (or niece) running up to a fixed screen and pawing it (or worse, drawing on it with crayons... marks are already showing up around the house). The ability to "roll it up" and get it out of the way (and tab-tensioned sounds like it will eliminate the waves) is very appealing. Focupix and Elite Cinetension2 can be had for about $600-700 in 106". A bit more than I wanted to spend, but might need to. There's also the "schwing" factor of the electric screen!

Thanks all

 

[lsiberian]

BMX, I appreciate the helpful remarks. That Focupix screen sounds like a good idea if I go the fixed (and budget) route.

Also, thanks Isiberian for making the suggestion to get the proj. first and then determine a size. That's not a bad idea. My plan was to fill up the wall entirely, but the wife may think that's overkill. Probably better to test it out and then pick out a screen size.

Overall, a tab-tensioned electric may fit the bill. I do want a fixed, but the big problem is kids. I can see my kid (or niece) running up to a fixed screen and pawing it (or worse, drawing on it with crayons... marks are already showing up around the house). The ability to "roll it up" and get it out of the way (and tab-tensioned sounds like it will eliminate the waves) is very appealing. Focupix and Elite Cinetension2 can be had for about $600-700 in 106". A bit more than I wanted to spend, but might need to. There's also the "schwing" factor of the electric screen!

Thanks all

If you got the white wall then you can always save for a screen. If it's textured then no way, but I still use a bare wall(I'm a cheapskate though)

Still I wouldn't make the screen too big you don't want to get eye strain(it hurts like hell)

 

[BMXTRIX]

I use a tab-tensioned 106" screen and absolutely love it. It drops down in front of our 60" plasma and after several years looks as good as the day I installed it.

I can tell you that it is a great way to go. What I can't tell you is just how good the cheaper (Elite/Focupix) screen actually is in quality.

I picked mine (Draper Ultimate Access V) up on eBay for about $800 shipped, which was a steal.

 

[Gatcod]

I use a tab-tensioned 106" screen and absolutely love it. It drops down in front of our 60" plasma and after several years looks as good as the day I installed it.

Actually that might be another reason to get an electric tab-tensioned screen. I might still want my TV there for just watching the news, etc. (as that is our main place to watch TV too) and the kids to play video games. The projector would be mostly for movies, so it would be cool to roll it up when we aren't watching movies. My wife hasn't realized it yet, but watching the news or something else on TV would be pretty annoying on a huge projector.

Maybe I'll look around for deals (E*bay / Craigslist) like you found on an electric screen. I remember looking up your screen on Google and it was something like $3k and I thought "oh hell no (for me)." But $800... not bad at all. As someone else pointed out people are unloading their HT stuff due to the economy.

 

[basspig]

It's definately not economical to have a projector gobbling up half a kilowatt of power just to watch TV. And there's the cost per hour amortized into bulb maintenance, etc.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Maybe I'll look around for deals (E*bay / Craigslist) like you found on an electric screen. I remember looking up your screen on Google and it was something like $3k and I thought "oh hell no (for me)." But $800... not bad at all. As someone else pointed out people are unloading their HT stuff due to the economy.

I wish you luck. I do regularly check eBay for more screens of the caliber of the one I got, and I can tell you that since I lucked into this one four years ago I have not seen a SINGLE one appear on eBay for anywhere near the price I paid, but have seen it go for well above that a couple of times for lower quality screens.

Keep in mind that Draper & DaLite both make tab-tensioned electric screens which are of indisputable quality, but aren't as slick as the Access V or Ultimate Access V series.

Yet, it will run you about $1,000 for their inexpensive tab-tensioned models. Inexpensive, but VERY high quality. Just not as much casework as the one I have.

Not sure how much these run (off the top of my head)...
http://www.draperinc.com/ProjectionScreens/ScreensProducts.asp?detail=243

This has a price sheet on the page though...
http://www.da-lite.com/products/product.php?cID=29&pID=39
http://www.da-lite.com/products/pricing_pdfs/39.pdf

Hmmmm... Still pretty darn expensive.

I would at least try the Focupix after seeing their quality with the fixed frame screens.

 

[Gatcod]

I would at least try the Focupix after seeing their quality with the fixed frame screens.

If I can't find a decent used electric screen, I think I'll go the Focupix route. Focupix has an electric tab-tensioned 106" 16:9 (or 110", can't remember) for $649. That includes the $100(!) for freight shipping. Not bad, although I think it was refurbished. I also found an Elite Screens Cinetension2 (110") for $750 (on Amazon).

BMX,
Did you buy your screen off of E*Bay locally, or did you have it shipped? If the previous owner shipped it, how did they get it to you (all the screens I look at come in this heavy, wood-framed boxes and have to be freight-shipped)?

I like BMX's setup of having a flat screen behind the screen (I assume that's for general TV). This would be perfect in my house as no one would want to watch TV on a huge projector. Maybe I could pick up a used non-HD flat-screen (say 42") for around $500 (or less). I'd imagine with HD now all the rage, a non-HD flat screen (or 720) would be pretty inexpensive.

 

[jinjuku]

Why don't you take a little time and a little money and with painters tape outline a small screen on the wall (*say 84" diagonally for a 16:9 ratio).

Get a quart of Kilz white primer and a quart of Behr paint Silver Screen.

Prime a coat or two. Lay down a coat or two of paint and shoot the projector against it. This way may decide you to go the Goo route or the Screened route.