Digital/Optical vs Multi-Channel output.

[zumbo]

While looking over another question, I popped open my dvd player manual to give a correct response. I assumed the Digital/Optical option was the best for audio of a dvd. While reading, I found that the six descrete (5.1) outputs can be used for this as well as DVD-A/SACD with no limitations on sampling frequency. So, would it be better to use the multi-channel output for everything and let my dvd player decode the DD and DTS rather than my receiver?

 

[markw]

If it sounds better, yes.

If not, then no.

next question...

 

[zumbo]

If not, then no.

next question...

Well, there is the cost of the cables before an audition.

I am looking for a more technical reason to connect this way. Hopefully someone has tried both.

 

[Dan Driscoll]

Generally the DD and DTS decoders in your receiver or processor will be better than the ones in your DVD player. Also, the receiver or processor will probably have more flexibility for setting speakers distances and applying bass management to DD/DTS.

 

[markw]

Actually, that would depend on the quality of the DACs in both units.

Well, there is the cost of the cables before an audition.

I am looking for a more technical reason to connect this way. Hopefully someone has tried both.

Again, no way to tell which is better without trying them.

And, as far as that cost thing goes, if you are using the SACD/DVD-Audio functions of your DVD player you have no choice. You MUST run six analog connections to your receiver. There's no way your receiver can extrapolate SACD/DVD-Audio from a digial stream. DD/DTS yes, but not these.

That leaves the digital connection to the receiver. Considering that virtually any single plain jane coaxial cable will pass the digital DD/DTS stream to your receiver, I don't really see the problem with cost.

 

[zumbo]

Again, no way to tell which is better without trying them.

And, as far as that cost thing goes, if you are using the SACD/DVD-Audio functions of your DVD player you have no choice. You MUST run six analog connections to your receiver. There's no way your receiver can extrapolate SACD/DVD-Audio from a digial stream. DD/DTS yes, but not these.

Nope. Don't have any DVD-A's yet. I am aware that I have to have the cables for that.

That leaves the digital connection to the receiver. Considering that virtually any single plain jane coaxial cable will pass the digital DD/DTS stream to your receiver, I don't really see the problem with cost.

I am using Tos. The cost would be the six cables.

Actually, that would depend on the quality of the DACs in both units.

My concern is not the DAC's, but the phrase from the manual "no limitations on sampling frequency".

 

[Nomo]

While I feel the sound of analog input used with Pure Direct, direct, or straight modes is superior to digital, the thing that 5.1 sound is missing is the presence of the rear surrounds that PLIIx gives. They seems to fill the room very well. It's not just an apples to apples comparison some disks are aided by the extra DSP induced channels, some are not.
My advise is spend the money on the cables to give the flexibility to do both. If you are planning on DVD-A or SACD I'd say both types of cables are a must.

 

[tbewick]

The only thing I can think of what your manual means is that toslink/electrical digital connections are suitable for PCM 16 bit/44.1 kHz/stereo, Dolby Digital, and DTS. SACD and DVD audio have a higher data rate and cannot be sent through these channels. They can be coded as non-digital signals through the RCA outputs on your DVD player.

The phrase 'no limitations on sampling frequency' is true in the sense that the signal from the six analogue RCA outputs are analogue, but there are limitations as to the effective bandwidth (and thus frequency range) of the analogue signal. For example, beyond a certain frequency the signal will contain no useful information and will only be thermal (random and Gaussian-like) noise.

 

[zumbo]

Thanks NomoSony and tbewick. I do plan on the cable purchase sometime in the future for DVD-A, but it would have rushed things up a little if it were to help my current DVD's.

This is what got my attention:
A: Digital connection: Connect an amplifier with Dolby Digital and DTS decoders. You can also enjoy high quality stereo sound with sampling frequencies of 88.2 and 96kHz if the material isn't copy-protected and the equipment you connect is compatible with these signals.

B: Analogue(6CH DISCRETE) connection: connect an amplifier with multi-channel audio input terminals to enjoy surround sound. This unit can decode Dolby Digital and DTS and there are no limitations on sampling frequencies with this kind of connection.

NomoSony
If I am using a dvd with DD or DTS, I don't use PLIIx. I use the format that is on the disc. I only use PLIIx if I want to change a 2-channel source to surround.

 

[MDS]

The limitation of 96 kHz is imposed by the s/pdif interface. The manual is reminding us that a high resolution track, such as a 192 kHz stereo track from a DVD-A would not play. The player can handle the higher sampling rate, so if the player does the decoding and uses the analog outs, that same 192 kHz track would play.

 

[zumbo]

The limitation of 96 kHz is imposed by the s/pdif interface. The manual is reminding us that a high resolution track, such as a 192 kHz stereo track from a DVD-A would not play. The player can handle the higher sampling rate, so if the player does the decoding and uses the analog outs, that same 192 kHz track would play.

So, are any basic concert/movie dvd's higher than 96 kHz?

 

[W_Harding]

Only some, not all, DVD-A have the 192kHz./24-bit sampling. The only reason to hook up the six audio cables would be if you were interested in the higher resolution audio formats DVD-A and SACD.

 

[Dan Driscoll]

I don't recall seeing what DVD player and receiver/processor/amp you're using. That info might help.

Something to keep in mind is that Dolby Digital and DTS are lossy formats. IMO you don't really gain anything by playing them back through the analog outputs of the DVD player because they aren't true high resolution formats to begin with.

It comes back to the quality of the decoders and the algorithms used to reconstruct the data. All else being equal, the decoders in most half-way decent receivers or processors will be better than what's in most DVD players. There will be some exceptions, I'm sure the decoders in a Denon DVD-5910 player are better than those in a JVC FX-10 receiver, but then again, no one who has a 5910 would be running it through an FX-10.

If you do have a top notch player and are going to use the analog outputs from the DVD player for DD/DTS playback, you want to make sure the downstream components will not degrade the sound quality. A good analog multi-channel preamp, like the Sony TA-P9000es or a McCormacK MAP-1, driving a good multi-channel power amp or 5 mono-blocks, would be ideal. OTOH, if you're going to run the analog outputs through a typical mass market HT reciever then you have not really gained anything, IMO.

But in the end the only way to know what will sound best to you is to hook it up both ways and listen.

 

[markw]

In the words of the great Yogi Berra, "It's deja vu ll over again."

"But in the end the only way to know what will sound best to you is to hook it up both ways and listen."

 

[zumbo]

Yamaha RXV-1400
Yamaha DVD-S840

 

[eirepaul]

Only some, not all, DVD-A have the 192kHz./24-bit sampling. The only reason to hook up the six audio cables would be if you were interested in the higher resolution audio formats DVD-A and SACD.

That's the only answer to this whole thing in a nutshell.

 

[zumbo]

Thanks!

 

[s002wjh]

for SACD you can only pass through 6-ch direct, as for DVD-A you should be able to pass through digital, but again there is the sampling frequency issue. so it is better to use 6-ch for best SACD/DVD-A Soud quility.

the SACD format is control by sony, and sony refuse the use of digital output for SACD due to piracy issue.

read the rewiew here http://reviews.cnet.com/Denon_DVD_1920/4505-6473_7-31481128-2.html?tag=nav

 

[krabapple]

for SACD you can only pass through 6-ch direct, as for DVD-A you should be able to pass through digital, but again there is the sampling frequency issue. so it is better to use 6-ch for best SACD/DVD-A Soud quility.

Normally neither SACD nor DVD-A will be passed through a digital connection, unless you are using ilink/firewire or a proprietary connector (e.g. Denonlink). ilink digitially passes both SACD and DVD-A. Not sure what the status of Denonlink is these days, I know that for awhile they were waiting for SACD approval.

 

[tlmacaddino]

Recently purchased Denon AVR-5805 / DVD-5910

Both have latest DenonLink "3" which is compatible with both SACD and DVD-A; within this scenario what would be the likelyhood that analogue cables (at least those not requiring a 3rd mortgage) would pass these audio formats with more fidelity than DL3? Thanks