Difference in fidelity?

Brian_the_King

Brian_the_King

Full Audioholic
Hey guys,

Do you think I would notice difference as far as musical quality going from this reciever, Denon DRA-395, to this one, Harman/Kardon HK3480?

@ a glance if you are too lazy to check the links out:
Denon -> 80x2 .08THD
H/K -> 120x2 .07THD
[^^Really the only big difference]

Infinity Primus 250 floorstands...


What do you guys think?

PS- I've found the H/K for under $300, as well, so keep that in mind when you answer [I know it's kind of a small jump between the two recievers]
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Brian_the_King said:
Hey guys,

Do you think I would notice difference as far as musical quality going from this reciever, Denon DRA-395, to this one, Harman/Kardon HK3480?

@ a glance if you are too lazy to check the links out:
Denon -> 80x2 .08THD
H/K -> 120x2 .07THD
[^^Really the only big difference]

Infinity Primus 250 floorstands...


What do you guys think?

PS- I've found the H/K for under $300, as well, so keep that in mind when you answer [I know it's kind of a small jump between the two recievers]
As long as you don't clip either of the amps, no reason for differences. Audio is full of mythology and urban legends, with some voodoo sprinkled here and there.:D
 
Brian_the_King

Brian_the_King

Full Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
As long as you don't clip either of the amps, no reason for differences.
Don't get what you're saying ;p -_-
 
D

DaveOCP

Audioholic
Even if all amplifiers in the world sound exactly the same, provided they are not stressed beyond their capabilities (which I dont buy at all) there's still the pre-amp section in both of these receivers, which also has probably more of a sonic signature than the amplifier sections.

Denon receivers tend to be a little lean, foward, and agressive. If you prefer something a little warmer and sweeter, check out Pioneer or Marantz.
 
A

AudioSeer

Junior Audioholic
Harmon Kardons have their own house sound which you may or may not like. Personally they are not my cup of tea.

If you are looking for a neutral, crystal clear sound, you might want to try the Pansasonic SA-XR55S. It's one of the new breed of digital amplifiers and has amazing sound quality for the price.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
DaveOCP said:
there's still the pre-amp section in both of these receivers, which also has probably more of a sonic signature than the amplifier sections.
DaveOCP said:
Probably won't hack it. Receivers are speced with their preamps in the chain. Check the frequency response, THD, etc.


If you prefer something a little warmer and sweeter, check out Pioneer or Marantz.


That implies gross frequency or even distortion anomalies. I doubt that exists.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Brian_the_King said:
Don't get what you're saying ;p -_-

If you don't exceed the design operating limits of modern, well designed components, they are transparent, period. Everything else is just speculated about them in unreliable comparisons and audio myths. DBT listening test have shown this over the years.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
DaveOCP said:
Denon receivers tend to be a little lean, foward, and agressive. If you prefer something a little warmer and sweeter, check out Pioneer or Marantz.
Man, I wish that were the case. My 3805 is so neutral, I need an eq to extract some high's. More depends on your room and speaker selection/placement than does the receiver.
 
Brian_the_King

Brian_the_King

Full Audioholic
oook, thanks for all the RE's.

So, do we all agree that unless I go buy a high-end stereo reciever [~<$600] I won't notice a difference, as far as quality?

I mean, would I even notice much of a difference if I went out and bought like a $2000 400x2 amp?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Brian_the_King said:
oook, thanks for all the RE's.

So, do we all agree that unless I go buy a high-end stereo reciever [~<$600] I won't notice a difference, as far as quality?

I mean, would I even notice much of a difference if I went out and bought like a $2000 400x2 amp?
Maybe, but probably not. So much depends on the electrical characteristics of your speakers. Speakers do vary in load characteristics and drive requirements, but in most cases any amp with a sufficiently low output impedance, sufficient power capability into the impedance of the speakers, stability to the phase characteristics of the speaker load, and sufficiently flat frequency response, will sound identical. Most amps meet these criteria into most moving coil driver speakers, so they'll sound identical.

Some speakers do present very difficult loads, and in very large rooms such speakers can present requirements that go way beyond what a $600 receiver is going to be capable of. So it is conceivable that different speakers in different rooms could result in audible differences between amplifiers. If you want to really rock a 10,000+ cubic foot room with no audible distortion, deep, floor-shaking bass, and your speakers are a difficult load, even that 400x2 amp might not have what it takes. I know that room size sounds huge, but a lot of mcmansions these days have some large open spaces. IMO, you have to be realistic about your requirements. In a relatively small room with modest speakers - no likely difference, unless you've bought some really junky electronics.

For most people's systems, better sound must = better speakers or better room treatments.
 
Brian_the_King

Brian_the_King

Full Audioholic
^^
Ok, thank you very much for clearing that up :)
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
With those speakers, both of your choices are going to sound fine. I'd opt for the H/K because I've found that receivers do have slight differences in sound. That extra power isn't a tiny amount - it will give you a decent improvement in headroom. It may be subtle, but the difference will still be there, especially if you have a larger room.

I agree that similarly spec'ed amps will sound more or less the same, but when you're talking about a receiver there are a lot of other small details that are in the chain that do influence the sound. DACs usually aren't an issue with stereo receivers because they are often fed analog signals. Neither is going to make those speakers sound better than they are (not that they are bad), so I'd go with the one that fits your budget best - less expensive or sound quality?

If you're looking used, you might also want to consider something like a Marantz PM7000 or 7200 integrated amps, both of which can be found around that price range. You will give up the FM tuner, but they have plenty of power and less to interfere with the sound.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Irvrobinson said:
but in most cases any amp with a sufficiently low output impedance, sufficient power capability into the impedance of the speakers, stability to the phase characteristics of the speaker load, and sufficiently flat frequency response, will sound identical. Most amps meet these criteria into most moving coil driver speakers, so they'll sound identical.

.

Where did I hear this before? Sounds so familiar:D
any two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat frequency response, and sufficiently low distortion and noise will sound exactly the same at matched levels if not clipped.)
 

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