Difference in DAC audio quality

[pepeelvis]

In my current set up I am playing using a dvd player with a digital input into my Musical Fidelity DAC as well as running a USB from my MAC. That then feeds into my Cayin AT88. My music is downloaded in Lossless, but there is still a major difference between sound quality with the DVD player being superior. My questions are as follows, if the digital information being sent to the DAC is identical shouldn't the quality be equal? What might be my bottleneck? If i buy a high end CD player would the sound quality be any better given that i have a dedicated tube DAC or is there more to highend CD players other than better dac performance?

 

[B3Nut]

They should be absolutely identical, the only difference would be a difference in level (unless the USB DAC is defective and malfunctioning.) Subtle level differences can masquerade as differences in percieved sound quality. Also, your tube DAC may be designed to deliberately color the sound, a tactic not unheard of.

But typically, DACs have no sound whatsoever, unless malfunctioning or defective - modern properly-designed DACs sound identical in proper bias-controlled listening tests.

 

[OttoMatic]

Differences in DACs do exist. I level matched a Benchmark DAC-1 with my ex-Outlaw 990 preamp. The differences were not utterly dramatic, but they were present. If you're experiencing a drastic difference, then something else is wrong.

I'm not sure exactly how you have it set up. You're pushing a MF DAC with a DVD player's digital output. Then, from a Mac, you're sending a digital signal via USB? Is that how it's setup? And then, when you listen to the same material, you hear a difference?

I did something like that as well, and I found a problem with the sound card setup. Since you're going USB out, you may not have a sound card setup to consider (or maybe there's some other settings available for USB output; I've never done USB out). Is it possible that the program you're using to play the audio (Winamp, in my case) has some type of effect or something similar?

Anyway, I too had a drastic difference at one time, and I resolved it to computer settings. Once that was resolved, the differences were much more subtle, but still present. Additionally, I fed the Benchmark and the Outlaw with identical signals from the DVD player (well, I used optical and coax separately from the DVD player when listening), and differences were still present. No, I didn't do it DBT, but levels were matched, and I could hear a slight difference.

Good luck!

 

[pepeelvis]

Thanks for the advice. I am currently playing my music from itunes. I am losing imaging as well as spacial qualities. I will look at my setting to make sure all tonal contrals etc are turned off. I will report back with results.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for the advice. I am currently playing my music from itunes. I am losing imaging as well as spacial qualities. I will look at my setting to make sure all tonal contrals etc are turned off. I will report back with results.

Are you loosing imaging totally? That sounds like one channel somewhere in the chain may be out of phase.

What happens when you only have the DVD to the external DAC only, any imaging lost then?

 

[fmw]

In my current set up I am playing using a dvd player with a digital input into my Musical Fidelity DAC as well as running a USB from my MAC. That then feeds into my Cayin AT88. My music is downloaded in Lossless, but there is still a major difference between sound quality with the DVD player being superior. My questions are as follows, if the digital information being sent to the DAC is identical shouldn't the quality be equal? What might be my bottleneck? If i buy a high end CD player would the sound quality be any better given that i have a dedicated tube DAC or is there more to highend CD players other than better dac performance?

Two problems. The first is level matching. If the comparative listening tests aren't at the exact same volume, you will prefer the louder one every time, even if it isn't relaly noticeably louder. The second issue is bias. To be sure, you need to eliminate bias from the listening test. Someone other than you needs to substitute the components randomly and match levels without your knowing which unit you are listening to. I think you'll find that with a bias controlled level matched comparison, they will sound exactly the same. DAC's are DAC's these days. It is mature and perfected technology.

 

[pepeelvis]

Even with all the setting correctly configured I am loosing quality. It seems that most of my losses are occuring in the high end of the spectrum, which is most noticeable in cymbals etc, but which flattens out presentation for everything. Volumes are set the same, and even my wife can tell the difference. I am going to try a new USB cable to see if that has any effect.

 

[jcPanny]

iTunes files

iTunes downloads defaults to low res ACC files not lossless. I don't even know if Apple Lossless is an option for downloads. Rip one of the CDs in question to the hard drive (in Apple Lossless format) for comparision to the CD player digital output. The lossless file sizes should be roughtly half the size of the origional CD.

 

[pepeelvis]

I have downloaded files in both lossless and wav which sound identical, but still worse than my dvd player. Any advice on anitjitter devices?

 

[Antus]

few things i have experienced with my computer. don't know if that will help.
1. In windows, no matter how good the sound card, unless it directly send out digital signal from dvd/cd player. all sound will go through windows mixer which will degraded the sound.
2. When i did a frequency response from my Windows computer. everything above 16KHz was pretty much gone.
3. I heard Apple computer doesn't suffer form mixers like Windows does. I sold my powerbook, i can't verify that claim.
4. most modern Apple computer have digital output via mini toslink. why not try that instead of USB DAC.
5. USB can only provide 2.5W of power, i will assume the external USB DAC have to compromise in quality in order to fit in the power requirement.
6. DAC chip vary in quality and price. for example Burr-Brown 1791 cost about $3-5 USD per chip and has S/N of about 100dB. on the other hand, Burr-Brown 1796 cost about $35 per chip and has S/N of about 120dB.
7. from what i know, DAC quality is more important than jitter. jitter should be the last thing to worry about.