Did I do something wrong?

[supervij]

Hi all,

(Is this the right place for this thread? Should I have put this in the Musical Goodness section? Let me know and if so, I'll ask one of the moderators to move it for me.)

I've just had my first dabbling with hi-resolution music, and after some reflection, I'm a little underwhelmed. Previously, the highest res I went were with the DTS layers on my three DVD-A discs. I thought they were phenomenal -- subtle, yet really spacious, and yes, higher quality-sounding.

Now, I don't know if it's my new universal player or my analog connections (Acoustic Research Advent component video cable being used for the 6 analog cables), or my mid-range receiver, but the sound of the music, while good, is just not as impressive as I thought it would be.

I noticed that when a section of music was particularly dense, I was able to discern all the different sounds much better than a standard CD or even the DTS-layer. But when the music was simpler (i.e., guitar and voice), the quality of the sound, while better than CD, was not so much better that I stood up and took notice.

My four hi-res discs:

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on SACD was impressive, with it's very spacious and full sound, sound effects all around. Definitely better than the CD (on PLIIx or not), definitely, and much better sound quality. But I'm just not sure if it's so much better that it's worth the extra cost.

The Blue Man Group's Audio and The Complex both on DVD-A was miles better than the redbook layer on the disc, but compared to the DTS layer? A bit better. Not a huge difference, except for those dense passages, but a bit better.

The Polyphonic Spree's Together We're Heavy on DVD-A -- ditto.

So . . . is it my player? I know it's a budget player, hardly in the league with the Denon players, but with my SDTV, I didn't feel I should go with such a huge investment in a player. Is it my analog cables? Are Acoustic Research Advent component cables just not up to snuff? Or is it my receiver? Few people on this forum seem to have the Yamaha RX-V750, as it's kinda mid-range, I think, so maybe it's not doing enough for the sound. Or maybe it's just my ears. Definitely not golden, but not bad either.

Any ideas?

cheers,
supervij

 

[Takeereasy]

I am in the same boat as you. I have decent speakers, a decent receiver, a budget DVD-Audio player (a Panasonic 5 disc changer), and only so-so DVD-audio sound. I am certain it is the DVD player in my case, and I'd bet the same for yours. The cables you have are fine. They are solidly built 75ohm cables, and that is all you need to transfer the sound from the DVD player to the receiver. I recently upgraded my receiver from a Sony to a nicer Marantz model. One of the first things I did was throw in a DVD audio disc I have so that I could hear the awesome difference. There wasn't much if any difference. The problem lies in the fact that the Player is responsible for decoding the DVD Audio, not the receiver. If the Player doesn't do a good job then there is no hope of getting high quality DVD audio. That said I also agree with you that DTS concert DVD's sound incredible, in fact, with my setup they are by far superior to DVD-Audio. I was ready to close the door on DVD Audio but I made the mistake of going to a friend that has a much more expensive setup then mine to test and see if I got the same results. To be blunt the DVD audio tracks whupped the DTS, DD, and stereo tracks I put in. But to be honest It isn't worth spending $1000 on a DVD player like he did to get that sound, at least not yet, and not to me. Also DVD audio dvds are expensive up here in Canada. For me this format is something to shoot for in the future, if it even survives.

 

[supervij]

Hi Takeereasy. Yeah, I kinda figured that my mid-range equipment wouldn't be enough to give mega sounding hi-res. It was hope I was banking on, but alas, my hope has been dashed.

I figure when I finally do get a nice big HDTV, I'll also invest in a better player. My Athena speakers aren't bad at all; I'm sure they'd do a pretty good job if I had better equipment.

Thanks for clearing up the player vs. the receiver thing. I wasn't really thinking about it, but it makes sense that the player is doing all the work, since it's analog, and I just set my receiver to "multi channel inputs".

I agree that prices are ridiculous in Ontario. In Toronto, all the big stores sell hi-res audio for anywhere between $25 and $40, but I've found my discs at used CD/DVD stores, where the prices were between $13 and $16.

So to answer my own question in the title, I guess what I did wrong was to buy mid-range equipment hoping for high-range sound. Silly boy.

cheers,
supervij

 

[shokhead]

I am in the same boat as you. I have decent speakers, a decent receiver, a budget DVD-Audio player (a Panasonic 5 disc changer), and only so-so DVD-audio sound. I am certain it is the DVD player in my case, and I'd bet the same for yours. The cables you have are fine. They are solidly built 75ohm cables, and that is all you need to transfer the sound from the DVD player to the receiver. I recently upgraded my receiver from a Sony to a nicer Marantz model. One of the first things I did was throw in a DVD audio disc I have so that I could hear the awesome difference. There wasn't much if any difference. The problem lies in the fact that the Player is responsible for decoding the DVD Audio, not the receiver. If the Player doesn't do a good job then there is no hope of getting high quality DVD audio. That said I also agree with you that DTS concert DVD's sound incredible, in fact, with my setup they are by far superior to DVD-Audio. I was ready to close the door on DVD Audio but I made the mistake of going to a friend that has a much more expensive setup then mine to test and see if I got the same results. To be blunt the DVD audio tracks whupped the DTS, DD, and stereo tracks I put in. But to be honest It isn't worth spending $1000 on a DVD player like he did to get that sound, at least not yet, and not to me. Also DVD audio dvds are expensive up here in Canada. For me this format is something to shoot for in the future, if it even survives.

You dont need to spend 1K on a player. 300 bucks will get you a nice mid range player that will work just fine.

 

[supervij]

Remember, shokhead, that we're talking Canadian bucks here. The Denon 2910, for example, costs us a thousand bucks Canadian. Here were my options for universal players, living in Toronto:

Pioneer 578A -- $140
Samsung 841 -- $148
Pioneer 588A -- $150
Elite 45A -- $499
Elite 47Ai -- $899
Denon 2910 -- $999
Integra 8.5 -- $1200
Elite 59Avi -- $1299
Denon 3910 -- $1499
Denon 5900 -- $3000
all prices in Canadian dollars, plus the FIFTEEN percent tax we pay in Ontario!

Check out the price jump from $150 to $500. I'm not crazy about the Elite players (too long a layer change -- takes me right out of the movie), and the next one up is the Denon 2910 for a thousand bucks. Considering I have an SDTV, I think I was right to go for a budget player.

cheers,
supervij

 

[shokhead]

What about used or BStock?

 

[supervij]

If you're talking about open-box returned items, yeah, they're around. But you're hard-pressed to find them. If they're low-end or mid-range units, they'll be snapped up by the masses. The high-end stuff is near impossible to find, because the people who buy 'em are probably pretty happy with them and have no need to return them.

What exactly is BStock, anyway?

cheers,
supervij

 

[shokhead]

Go to Denon,Yamaha or any other and they give you a list of authorized online dealers. Some sell units that have been fixed by the dealer and resold as bstock at a discount. I got my 2805 from Dakmart.com as a bstock,fixed by Denon and a full denon 1 year warr for $671.

 

[Takeereasy]

There are no authorized internet dealers for Canada for Denon or Yamaha or just about any company you want to list, at least not poated on their web sites. There are authorized dealers for some companies that will ship to Canada, but that almost always, we're talking 95 to 99% of the time in my experience, voids the warranty. I do think that the best move is to scope out authorized dealers looking for demos or open box specials. I agree that you can get a deal on a good player for well under $1000 CDN by looking. My local dealer is selling the Nad 533 DVD player for $425 CDN. It plays DVD Audio but no SACD. Look around and see what you can get. The prices of these units are really coming down right now. By mentioning the fact that my friend had dropped $1000 CDN on a DVD player I wasn't suggesting you need to do the same. To him $1000 is what $200 would be to me. The guy doesn't rub it in my face, he can just afford to outspend me. I blame him and this site for getting me hooked on HT's. He has the Denon 2910 by the way, was the first kid on the block to have it, and he paid pretty much full MSRP ($1177 CDN) to get it. Awesome DVD player, but way too much for me $ and tech wise. I have a SD tv as well. My Panasonic cheapie DVD player does a fine job for now, but when I upgrade I will not invest more than $600 CDN into a DVD player, and I hope way less.

 

[supervij]

Shokhead, that is brilliant! When I do my upgrade (TV and player), that'll totally be something I'll look into, except . . .

. . . for Takeereasy's news about the lack of authorized Canadian internet dealers. Crap!

Yeah, I can't see myself spending a whole thou on a player, but it's nice to dream. By the time I do my upgrade, I'm hoping that prices for universal players will have come down substantially. In the meantime, it's not so bad. The quality, while not mega, is definitely better than CD, and the player only cost me $150 Canadian. So I'm content for now. I guess.

cheers,
supervij