Denon X4400H

[Ras777]

Just purchased the X4400H from Crutchfield was told that I could run a 7.2.4 system with my Emotiva XPA-3 powering my LCR. Just want to make sure this is the case. The only exception that their Tech department mentioned was that I would be unable to run Audyssey XT32. This really did not make much sense to me and I am hoping its incorrect. Does anyone have experience with this model set up this way? Audyssey works with my current system in a 7.2 configuration. Thanks.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Im running 7.2.4 with this receiver so yes it will work. Im using a 5 channel amp with it and ran audssey just fine so that statement confuses me.

 

[lovinthehd]

I haven't heard that before. What does the manual say? I don't trust salespeople knowledge much, even if they have "tech" badges.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Fare warning, audyssey takes forever with a 7.2.4 config. Plan your day around it.

 

[Ras777]

Their salesperson had me on hold for a good twenty minutes while their "tech department" was researching my questions. My biggest concern was amp assignability and the subwoofer outputs. I want to assign 8 of the Denon's amps to the surrounds and the ceiling speakers and use the Emotiva for the LCR . Also are the two subwoofer outputs independent? I would imagine with XT32 they must be. Anyway, he told me to call Tech back when it comes in since they have a workaround on the speaker calibration?? Normally I would ask these questions here but I did not want to lose the deal on the X4400H. I called to purchase the X4500H but at almost half price I could not resist and there were only a couple left.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, only a few Onkyos with XT32 didn't have the independent sub level adjustments for delay/level (and the real shame is that Audyssey provided the ability to do more than two subs but no avr manufacturer I'm aware of ever implemented that). I wouldn't even call Denon's customer service for questions any more....

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Yes, audyssey ran my subs independently during calibration. And yes you can use the pre-outs for lcr and the built in amps for the rest of your speakers. I'm doing exactly this but with a 5 chan amp. As long as you have at least 2 channels on an external amp you can achieve 7.2.4.

 

[PENG]

Just purchased the X4400H from Crutchfield was told that I could run a 7.2.4 system with my Emotiva XPA-3 powering my LCR. Just want to make sure this is the case. The only exception that their Tech department mentioned was that I would be unable to run Audyssey XT32. This really did not make much sense to me and I am hoping its incorrect. Does anyone have experience with this model set up this way? Audyssey works with my current system in a 7.2 configuration. Thanks.

Incorrect on both counts!

You cannot do 7.1.4 if you use the XPA-3 to power your LCR because the AVR-X4400H has only 9 channels of power amplifiers and it does not allow for repurposing the front channels. So you need the XPA-5 to do 7.1.4 if you insist on using the XPA amp to drive the FL, FR and C channels.

The Denon flag ship AVRs (the flag ship Marantz SR8015 can't do it either) are the only AVRs that allows you to assign virtually any speaker binding post to any any channel of output, except the center channel (apparently). The AVR-X4400H and X6400H have predefined templates for amp assign that do not include repurposing the L,C,R,SL and SR.

Of course you can run XT32, unless the "tech" was talking about something else.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Incorrect on both counts!

You cannot do 7.1.4 if you use the XPA-3 to power your LCR because the AVR-X4400H has only 9 channels of power amplifiers and it does not allow for repurposing the front channels. To do it, you need the XPA-5.

The Denon flag ship AVRs (the flag ship Marantz SR8015 can't do it either) are the only AVRs that allows you to assign virtually any speaker binding post to any any channel of output, except the center channel (apparently). The AVR-X4400H and X6400H have predefined templates for amp assign that do not include repurposing the L,C,R,SL and SR.

Of course you can run XT32, unless the "tech" was talking about something else.

Typo? 9+2 =11. He can do 7.2.4 with an xpa-3. You only need 2 extra channels of amplification.

 

[PENG]

Typo? 9+2 =11. He can do 7.2.4 with an xpa-3. You only need 2 extra channels of amplification.

Not a typo, please re-read my post. You might have read it before I added the explanation.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Ok you are correct. Im using an xpa 5. Only one of the pre-outs are assignable if I recall so I think Im using my amp for lcr and 2 of the atmos speakers.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Just to clarify for OP because this was confusing to myself as well before I hooked it up and started playing. Per the manual below (page 61) you need 2 channels of amplification for the 2nd set of atmos speakers. This is not changeable at all, its the only way to get 4 atmos speakers. So like Peng said, if you want your front 3 driven by an amp as well you'll need a 5 channel amp or another 2 channel amp.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4400H/EU/EN/download.php?filename=/AVRX4400H/EU/EN/pdf/AVRX4400H_EU_EN.pdf

 

[Ras777]

Peng are you sure? This was the exact question I was asking their tech department. I was very specific in what I wanted to do. It would be crazy to use my XPA-3 for surrounds. Are you saying that only flagship models will allow me to utilize my XPA-3 for the LCR? They got every question I asked wrong! This is after 20 min. of so-called research on their part. This is all they do day after day and they still can't get a simple question answered correctly. Very sad. Peng if you are right it's going back. Maybe I can cancel the order.

 

[Ras777]

Thanks, Drunkpenguin for looking that up. I wish Crutchfield could have told me that before I purchased it. It's very disappointing how little flexibility you have with these receivers. I love my XPA-3 and have no plans on getting rid of it or using it for surrounds, that would be a waste of a great amp.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

The x6400 will do what you want I believe, but for less money you could probably get a cheap 2 channel amp for the atmos.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe let Crutchfield off the hook if they can hook you up with a deal on a 2ch amp that can handle the heights?

 

[PENG]

Peng are you sure? This was the exact question I was asking their tech department. I was very specific in what I wanted to do. It would be crazy to use my XPA-3 for surrounds. Are you saying that only flagship models will allow me to utilize my XPA-3 for the LCR? They got every question I asked wrong! This is after 20 min. of so-called research on their part. This is all they do day after day and they still can't get a simple question answered correctly. Very sad. Peng if you are right it's going back. Maybe I can cancel the order.

I was 100% sure but if the so called rep told you something different then maybe I was wrong. However, if you read up on the X7200WA and X8500H, they have a custom assign option that allows you to re-purpose any of the unused internal amps except the center (the manual is not clear on the center channel) and no other D&M AVRs have that custom assign option.

Also, in the Audioholics.com preview of the AVR-X8500H, Gene said the following (see highlighted bold red):
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x8500h-13.2ch-av-receiver

X8500H also has a "Custom" amp assign setting which allows you to map virtually any speaker binding post to any channel of output. For example, if you're using a 5ch amp to power LCR+Surrounds in the main zone, you can repurpose the unused FL/FR and SL/SR amps in the AVR to power Zone 2/3 speakers (the X6400H only has predefined templates for amp assign).

Again, I was 100% but now down to about 80% after being interrogated (just kidding). I don't have the Atmos speakers yet so to get this to 100@, may be @Drunkpenguin can do us all a favor by trying (just pretend) to assign the FL and FR internal amps to the Atmos channels?

I agree with Drunkpenguin, if you can find a good deal for the X6400H, given what you want to do, it would be a no brainer. That thing is even made in Japan, better build than the X4400H and SR7012 for sure.

 

[Ras777]

Thank you for all the great information. If I decide to go with another external amp for the two ceiling speakers is their one that you would recommend? Also would I have any issues integrating three separate amplifiers? Would XT32 calibrate them all correctly? Not to open up a can of worms but I have an older plasma TV that I plan on replacing in the next couple of years. Because of this I did not want to invest in a flagship receiver right now because I am waiting for them to implement HDMI 2.1. The X4400H is a perfect stopgap for me. It will allow me to use my Atmos speakers now until I replace my TV and at $899 it’s a great deal.

 

[Ras777]

Crutchfield tech confirmed I will need a 2-channel power amp if I want to utilize my Emotiva XPA-3 for the LCR. Option 1 I can purchase a Russound P75 for $130. It puts out 60w/ch at 8ohms and would power the back surrounds. X4400H $899 + Russound $130=$1029. Option 2 X6400H $1499. What should I do?

 

[PENG]

Crutchfield tech confirmed I will need a 2-channel power amp if I want to utilize my Emotiva XPA-3 for the LCR. Option 1 I can purchase a Russound P75 for $130. It puts out 60w/ch at 8ohms and would power the back surrounds. X4400H $899 + Russound $130=$1029. Option 2 X6400H $1499. What should I do?

$600 more for the X6400H seems like a lot. I don't know about the Russound P75, but would feel a lot better with something like an Emotiva A150.