Denon receiver upgrade - stick with Denon?

[Trezl]

I have a Denon 3802 AVR and I've been looking to upgrade to HD audio.

I'm looking at the Denon 3808ci and 4310ci (or 3310ci). All look great and I think I'll be happy with any of them.

My question is this: I've heard the idea that you pick your speakers, then pick an amp that goes with it. I know that the 3802 works well with my speakers, so I figured staying with Denon would be a good way to go.

But should I look at receivers from other companies? (Onkyo, Yamaha). Or should I stick with what I know?

Thoughts?

 

[PENG]

If you like the way the 3802 works with your 7.1 system now you would likely be happy with the 3808. With the new models out you can now pick up a new 3808 for a little over half what most people paid less than a year ago.

Denon's mid range AVRs do not offer the best video features for the money but they seem to do well in terms of reliability.

 

[Trezl]

Yeah, the 3808ci was definitely high on my list.

I saw that the x310ci series just came out and they have some nice new features. What is the difference between the x8xx and x3xx series?

I understand that the first number says what tier of a series it is (4xxx > 3xxx), and the last 2 numbers basically denote generation. What does that second number denote?

 

[ace0001a]

Having owned a 3802 myself around 8 years ago, I know it was a pretty good receiver. Still the best Denon I feel that I've owned was the AVR-4800, the one I upgraded/downgraded to the 3802 from. That perspective is based on build quality as well as quality of the amplifier section. As I feel the beefier amp coupled with the way the electronics in the 4800 implementation of the amp produced better sound then in any 3000 series I've owned and listened to. With that said, I did recently own an AVR-3808ci that I picked up last year for about half the price it was selling for when it was released in 2007. It was a good receiver that served me well for almost a year, but like fellow member LOTR describes Denon's "reserved...thin sound" that made me wanting to change to another receiver as soon as possible. I basically change receivers every 1-2 years and between owning the 3802 and 3808, I've owned a few Yamahas and Pioneer Elites. I got a really good deal this year on a Pioneer Elite SC-07 and I'm so glad I got it. The ICEpower amps on the SC-07 along with the usual way Pioneer electronics implementation makes for some smooth, warm and dynamic sound. I'd say that if you like the sound of 3802, then you'll probably like the 3808 or 43XX. The 3808 with all firmware updates will pretty much give you everything that the newly released Denon receivers have with the exception of DPLIIz, but that's not really a big deal to most people and the 3808 can be had a great price right now. If you're a little adventerous and always wonder about the functionality and performance of other brands, I'd say give a Pioneer Elite, Yamaha or Onkyo a try.

 

[Trezl]

Thanks for all the help, as always!

Local "Yellow Ticket" store (as my kids call it) didn't have any 3808ci in stock any more since it's an older model, so they dropped $300 off the new 4310ci (which is right in line with what I'm seeing it go for online right now) with 3yrs no interest.

So, I'm the proud new owner of the HD capable 4310ci. Got it setup tonight, and it sounds great already, plus it seems to do a pretty good job scaling my stuff to 1080p (more testing will need to be done).

It sure has a lot more options than the 3802 had in terms of matrix sound, etc. and was very easy to setup. Plus, I watched Iron Man with DoblyDigital TrueHD tonight. Very good stuff.

 

[PENG]

Congratulations! I am happy to know that you did not listen to anyone telling you about this so called "Denon's reserved... thin sound" thing.

I have owned 3 Denon AVR so far and even the light weight 1705 did not sound thin driving Polk speakers (91dB/W 1 m sensitivity). I have had compared them with much more powerful amps in terms of both SQ and current outputs. When playing stereo (just 2 channels) the 3805 and 4308 managed to output the same peak currents as my power amps at up to >100 SPL. I did not push them much further because I would have to wear ear plugs and risk damaging something. Any thin sound talks are not credible without referencing to specific speaker loads and room acoustic conditions. Given the right (or wrong to be more precise) conditions, anything can be made to sound thin. Happy listening and enjoy the typically trouble free Denon sound!

 

[Lordoftherings]

Thanks for all the help, as always!

Local "Yellow Ticket" store (as my kids call it) didn't have any 3808ci in stock any more since it's an older model, so they dropped $300 off the new 4310ci (which is right in line with what I'm seeing it go for online right now) with 3yrs no interest.

So, I'm the proud new owner of the HD capable 4310ci. Got it setup tonight, and it sounds great already, plus it seems to do a pretty good job scaling my stuff to 1080p (more testing will need to be done).

It sure has a lot more options than the 3802 had in terms of matrix sound, etc. and was very easy to setup. Plus, I watched Iron Man with DoblyDigital TrueHD tonight. Very good stuff.

Hey Congratulations on your new Denon AVR-4310ci.

I read many comments from owners, and they seem very happy (after the small initial bump with the firmware update, seems Okie Dookie now).

I think that you gonna really like it more and more. Keep us inform on the cool features and performance of your new toy.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[MatthewB.]

I own a Denon 4802 a Denon 3808 and an Onkyo 805. I Looooove the sound of my 4802 (pretty much the best reciever I have ever heard and I have tested quite a few of em. Now the next reciever that came cose to the 4802 sound was my Onkyo 805 with my 3808 coming close but not quite the warmth that the 4802 gave me. I like the 805 for it's sound and built in amps, but it has also given me plenty of issues. Had to send it to Regional to get bad solder joint repaired and firware upgraded. every so often my hdmi will lose connection so I have to unplug and plug back in (liek once a month it does this).

The 3808 so far has not given me one bit of problems, has worked like a charm (knock on wood) since I bought it two years ago and my Denon 4802 used daily in my office still has worked like it has since day one.

If I were you, I would stick with the Denon line, just great recievers.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks for all the help, as always!

Local "Yellow Ticket" store (as my kids call it) didn't have any 3808ci in stock any more since it's an older model, so they dropped $300 off the new 4310ci (which is right in line with what I'm seeing it go for online right now) with 3yrs no interest.

So, I'm the proud new owner of the HD capable 4310ci. Got it setup tonight, and it sounds great already, plus it seems to do a pretty good job scaling my stuff to 1080p (more testing will need to be done).

It sure has a lot more options than the 3802 had in terms of matrix sound, etc. and was very easy to setup. Plus, I watched Iron Man with DoblyDigital TrueHD tonight. Very good stuff.

Congrats, that should prove to be a great receiver! Note on Iron Man, make sure you disengage the "autoflagged DRC" on this title. Every TrueHD title has thing thing, but for this title it's the very worst I've ever heard. Maybe you already did. I would think/hope with Denon, once you turn off the auto DRC, the setting will stick, as they seem to be pretty good such implementations, for on my Onkyo 805 I have to do it every darn time.

 

[Trezl]

Congrats, that should prove to be a great receiver! Note on Iron Man, make sure you disengage the "autoflagged DRC" on this title. Every TrueHD title has thing thing, but for this title it's the very worst I've ever heard. Maybe you already did. I would think/hope with Denon, once you turn off the auto DRC, the setting will stick, as they seem to be pretty good such implementations, for on my Onkyo 805 I have to do it every darn time.

Hmm... I'll have to check that next time and try it out.

Just watched Harry Potter 2 on Blu-ray and got to the credits before I realized the HP blu-rays default to Dolby Digital instead of the HD PCM5.1 ... so going to have to manually make that adjustment whenever I watch HP. Silly really.

Thanks again for all the comments!

 

[jostenmeat]

Hmm... I'll have to check that next time and try it out.

Just watched Harry Potter 2 on Blu-ray and got to the credits before I realized the HP blu-rays default to Dolby Digital instead of the HD PCM5.1 ... so going to have to manually make that adjustment whenever I watch HP. Silly really.

Thanks again for all the comments!

Oh, I'm so sorry, didn't note the PS3 in sig. THIS is where the DRC must be undone, and IIRC the PS3 does retain the setting. It may very well be off already; perhaps you've selected it that way in the past.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Congrats, that should prove to be a great receiver! Note on Iron Man, make sure you disengage the "autoflagged DRC" on this title. Every TrueHD title has thing thing, but for this title it's the very worst I've ever heard. Maybe you already did. I would think/hope with Denon, once you turn off the auto DRC, the setting will stick, as they seem to be pretty good such implementations, for on my Onkyo 805 I have to do it every darn time.

Hey, that's a great important point Josten; I totally forgot about that one. You are absolutely correct, concerning this particular title ('Iron Man' on Blu-ray). I'll also bet that a lot of people don't even know, and that their receivers might be stuck on the DRC mode, even after, for all the movies they watched thereafter. That could spell a big drop in sound quality from their system setup, without them even knowing! Because me too, with my 805, I have to turn it OFF again after each time I put that blu-ray title in my player.
This was a major flaw from Paramount studios (it automatically engaged the DRC audio mode from some receivers; it is coded and permanently embedded in the Blu-ray disc itself).
And it is very easy to forget that small important detail, with time.

Ouf! Gotta remember that one.

* By the way, I'm pretty sure that the OP (Trezl), knows already that his PS3 HDMI audio has to be set to Multich LPCM, by Selecting it.

 

[ace0001a]

Congratulations! I am happy to know that you did not listen to anyone telling you about this so called "Denon's reserved... thin sound" thing.

Well Bob (LOTR), I guess you and I among the few here with that point of view. To be fair, I did say that if the OP liked the sound of his 3802 that he'd like whatever new model Denon he got...and just for the record, he did thank me for my post. Everyone has their own sound tasts of course...but having owned 2 3000 series Denons, I can say it lacked something I was looking for. Don't get me wrong, my Denon AVR-3808ci was an excellent receiver and I did like it to a point. I just simply prefer the "warmer" sound that is implemented by the electronics of Pioneer Elite and Yamaha receivers. Afterall, I have been through 12 receivers (Onkyo, Sherwood, Sony, Sony ES, Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer Elite) in the past 16 years and so I know I've got a good feel for various sounds of the different brands. No knock on anyone else, but I honestly won't believe you'd know that perspective unless you've gone through at least a few different brands of receivers with the same speakers (like myself and LOTR). So I will say to each their own I guess...

I own a Denon 4802 a Denon 3808 and an Onkyo 805. I Looooove the sound of my 4802 (pretty much the best reciever I have ever heard and I have tested quite a few of em. Now the next reciever that came cose to the 4802 sound was my Onkyo 805 with my 3808 coming close but not quite the warmth that the 4802 gave me. I like the 805 for it's sound and built in amps, but it has also given me plenty of issues. Had to send it to Regional to get bad solder joint repaired and firware upgraded. every so often my hdmi will lose connection so I have to unplug and plug back in (liek once a month it does this).

The 3808 so far has not given me one bit of problems, has worked like a charm (knock on wood) since I bought it two years ago and my Denon 4802 used daily in my office still has worked like it has since day one.

If I were you, I would stick with the Denon line, just great recievers.

I would agree with you there as far as the AVR-4802 is concerned. I really loved my AVR-4800. Nice and warm sound as you said. But to me, their 3000series and below aren't as good. And these days, even the 4000 series has fell victim to the economic times. Just looking at the weight of the current 4000 series units and you'll see they don't compare to 4000 models of previous years. Bottom line is the OP went for what sounds good to him and that's all that counts. I've always been more adventurous when it comes to electronics because I like to try different gear out. To me variety is the spice of life and I think you'll never know what's out there that's different (or even better) for you until you try it.