Yeah, no matter what kind of EQ we use, the key is figuring out the way to get the sound you want.
So with Editor app, first you tell Audyssey to EQ from 200Hz and below. Then Audyssey will create the usual curves for this region - Audyssey and Audyssey Flat. Then you choose one of these curves - like Audyssey Flat.
Then if you aren’t happy with the bass, you can go back and manually boost the 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz?
That is correct. I understand for Yamaha, you can run YPAO, that is auto EQ, and then go back and do your manual tweak using PEQ filters. With Audyssey, you just select the frequency point you want to apply manually entered (if using Ratbuddyssey UI) or draw by hand to modify the target curve. Then when you send the new target curve to the AVR, a new modified set of filters will be created to try and achieve that modified target curve.
You can run REW to more accurately see the new curve, but will Audyssey app show the new Manual Curve with the boost at 40, 60, 80Hz so that you can roughly see what you’ve done to the response without using REW?
Sort of yes. Below was the steps I took, after running Audyssey:
1. Run REW to obtain the actual FR with Audyssey "On".
2. I have also can run REW for say 6 or more positions so that the mic would cover the MMP, left, right, up, down, relative to the MMP and then I would end up with a average FR.
3. The REW curve is not going to be flat, in my case, it has dips and bumps with peak to peak variation of about 9 dB, or +/- 4 to 5 dB between 15 and 200 Hz no smoothing.
4. I then set up an Excel spreadsheet, and find out what are the cuts and boost at selected frequency points (I would say you need at least 20 freq points between 15-200 Hz) I need to apply in order to achieve a flat curve, that is +/- 0 dB 15 to 200 Hz.
5. Then I would use Ratbuddyssey to enter the cuts and boosts calculated by Excel.
6. Save the modified curve.
7. Select send the curve to the AVR.
8. The App will create the filters and upload it to the AVR.
9. Run REW again to see how flat the actual FR now has become, and go from there.
In my case, the whole process took about 30 min to an hour, to get the curve flat to about +/- 2 to 2.5 dB. To get it to within +/- 1 to 1.5 dB (absolutely no need imo..), it would take me a few more hours as it is a trial and error process, and I would have to use well over 35 frequency points to "anchor" the curve flat.
With using the 3 rd party Ratbuddyssey user interface software, one would have to try and draw in order to modify the target curve using just the MultEQ Editor App, and that would be a painful process as Amir called it.
YPAO will show the new response curve immediately ON SCREEN as you are adjusting PEQ with the new amplitude (+/-dB) and Q-value. I’m sure it’s not as accurate as REW, but it’s a quick way to see the immediate results as you are going through every step.
Audyssey MultEQ Editor App does that too, but as you know those are not the same as using REW/Umik-1 mic to measure the actual response.
When I changed the Q from 0.5 to larger numbers/ more narrow effects, I could see the bass curve go from a big mountain to almost flat. And the bass sound reflected this change.
Yes I realized that, you have to use a formula to calculate Q but to do with with a highly irregular curve it isn't easy to do and won't therefore be accurate without going through some trial and error, at least that was my experience when I was using minidsp and REW's biquad/PEQ equalizers. I believe Audyssey's FIR filters are better and have much higher resolution, and best of all, you don't have to worry about Q, its algorithm used for filter creation should be much more advanced than PEQ filters.
You think Audyssey App figured the Q-values from the initial run, then use the same Q-values when you are adjusting the manual EQ?
I believe the Audyssey App creates filters exactly the same way either way, the only difference is, the initial filters were created to meet the flat target curve, whereas the new set of filters would be to created to meet to modified target curve that will not be flat. So in that sense, I suppose yes you can say that Audyssey has to figure out the appropriate "Q" for the new filters but no it won't necessarily be the same as those used in the original set of filters. Think of it this way, YPAO does not require you to enter "Q", or anything because it collected the info from the mic and figure things out all by itself. Same for Audyssey, except if the App is used to modify the target curve, in doing so you have to enter the changes to the target curve by entering/or drawing the cuts and boosts at selected frequencies, but that is just the way to tell Audyssey you want it to follow and implement the new target curve, the filter creation is still done by Audyssey. So that is very different than the manual tweak you do after YPAO, that actually requires you to create your own PEQ filters on top of those already created by YPAO.
Look at it this way,
- the original flat curve used in the Audyssey auto setup run resulted in an actual FR curve that is flatter than it Audyssey is turned off, but not as flat as the target curve, that is, it managed to get close to the target curve, such as within +/- 4 to 5 dB.
- the modified target curve, based on the manually entered cuts and boosts on selected frequency points are intended to get the "actual"
FR flatter, but naturally the target curve will have to be "non flat",
because we have already found out, using REW, that the flat target
curve resulted in a non flat actual
curve. I know you an IQ man so I am sure you can follow my logic, no matter how confusing it may sound on surface.
I might have documented the procedure for using Ratbuddyssey UI with the Audyssey MultEQ Edior App in my users thread.
Did you try the procedure I posted? You should be able to flatten the curve within an hour. You should also aim for 75 dB instead of 85 because if that huge dip. I am sure the mini cannot do better than the app if you use Ratbuddyssey. Big thread, which post? I read everything in this...
If you have time, here's a very informative Youtube video on the App: