Denon LFE+Main Confused

[Bob Leonard]

I’m looking for some help in understanding the LFE setup options on my Denon AVR-5308ci. There are two options.

1. LFE-THX-

2. LFE+Main

The owner’s manual is a somewhat vague. I am using the LFE-THX- option with the three-front channels crossed over at 80hz and the surrounds crossed over at 100hz.

The LFE+Main allows me to set my crossovers the same as LFE-THX. How is this different from the LFE-THX- settings?

 

[j_garcia]

LFE+Main generally refers to setting the mains to large and having bass directed to both mains and sub. If you intend to cross them at 80, just use the THX one.

 

[agarwalro]

Denon/Marantz Subwoofer Bass Setting sends signal to sub like this,

LFE: LFE channel + Speaker channel signal below crossover for those set to Small
LFE+Mains: LFE channel + Speaker channel signal below crossover for those set to Small + Front L and R channel signal below LPF of LFE

If a speaker is set to Small and bass setting is LFE, anything below crossover is sent to sub. LPF of LFE makes no difference.

If L and R speaker is set to Small and bass setting is LFE+Mains, L, R signal above crossover but below LPF of LFE are duplicated to sub. This configuration is not recommended since most likely there will be a peak or null in the crossover to LPF of LFE frequency band.

If a speaker is set to Large, that speaker will get full range signal. If bass setting is LFE, the sub will not get any signal associated to the speaker channel. If the setting is LFE+Mains, the speaker will continue to get full range signal and at the same time L and R channel signal below LPF of LFE will additionally play on the sub.

 

[Bob Leonard]

It sounds confusing. Is LFE a separate channel? Is LFE encoded into a stereo CD?

What I’m understand that if you set your speakers to small. The subwoofer gets the frequencies below the crossover settings, and the small speakers get the frequency’s above the crossover setting. If you set your speakers to small plus mains. The mains are not crossed over and are full range with sub. Why not just set you mains as large with subwoofer? Still confused. I called Denon customer support. It seems the Denon support doesn’t understand these settings.

 

[j_garcia]

LFE is a separate channel; the ".1" of an audio track. CDs are stereo which does not contain a ".1" by definition. Mains that don't go to at least the mid 30s to 40s, I'd set to small. Sending the bass to the sub is easier on the receiver and speakers because the sub does a better job at handling those frequencies - that's what it is designed to to.

 

[agarwalro]

It sounds confusing. Is LFE a separate channel? Is LFE encoded into a stereo CD?

LFE vs. LFE+Main is a confusing setting. LFE stands for Low Frequency Effects and is '.1' in 5.1 or 5.1.4. CD music, is 2.0 and doesn't have a LFE track.

What I’m understand that if you set your speakers to small. The subwoofer gets the frequencies below the crossover settings, and the small speakers get the frequency’s above the crossover setting.

This is correct. (A sub if enabled in settings will always gets the LFE track when present in source, irrespective of the Small/Large setting of speakers.)

If you set your speakers to small plus mains. The mains are not crossed over and are full range with sub.

There is no config/setting for "small plus mains". You've mixed the setting for speakers and sub . When the speakers are set to small, they will not get signal below the selected crossover frequency irrespective of subwoofer mode of LFE or LFE+Mains.

Why not just set you mains as large with subwoofer? Still confused.

Some feel that setting the mains to large helps in getting better integration between speakers and subwoofer. Even for people with tower speakers, this is not recommended. There are several caveats associated with this approach and is not recommended for 99.9% of setups.

Using LFE+Main allows a subwoofer to play in Direct Mode (as opposed to Stereo or Pure Direct) with Stereo (2.0) recordings. This is because 2.0 signal (Front L and R channels) below LPF of LFE is getting duplicated to the sub output. Try this, set the AVR to Direct mode and play a CD with good bass and flip the setting between LFE and LFE+Mains. The difference will be immediately noticeable. Just remember, frequencies between crossover and LPF of LFE (120Hz by default) are playing from the main speakers and subwoofer.

I called Denon customer support. It seems the Denon support doesn’t understand these settings.

Not surprised at all. This is a setting which 99% of people can ignore.

 

[Pedro Alvarado]

Bob Leonard, does this help?

this one is about subs

this one is about bass management

 

[Bob Leonard]

I understand diagram A LFE-THX. I still however do not understand diagram B LFE+Mains. What happens in the LFE+Main setting.

 

[PENG]

View attachment 22853
I understand diagram A LFE-THX. I still however do not understand diagram B LFE+Mains. What happens in the LFE+Main setting.

In that setting, the subwoofer will get the lfe signal as well as the L and R channels bass signal at frequencies below the LPF frequency. The mains (L & R) will get full range signal that is not limited by a crossover setpoint.

Actually the complete explanation is in post#3 by agarwalro.

 

[Sachb]

I tried setting :

Speaker: Fronts-Large
Center- Large
Surrounds - Small

LFE: LFE + MAIN
Crossover: (Individual)
Fronts (60 HZ),Center (80HZ) and Surrounds 80HZ

For my Speakers which are:
ELAC DEBUT B6.2 (Fronts)
ELAC DEBUT C6.2 (Center) ,
Boston Acoustics ASW 250W (Subwoofer)
Boston Acoustics Surrounds: A23

The above settings have shown some improvement for music, will test again and confirm. I feel the music has become more punchier.

 

[ryanosaur]

Holy thread-surrection, Batman!

First, your speakers should not be set to large, as they are in NO WAY CAPABLE of delivering full range frequency response down to 20Hz. You should set them to small.
Next, your XO for those speakers is way too low. Marketing claims on the b6.2 is 44Hz extension. I would recommend 90Hx XO, then experiment down to 80, and up as high as 120. Your Center will likely do better set to 110Hz as it is rated to 55Hz extension. (Basically, 1 octave above the low end of your speakers is a common consensus for setting XO point.)

 

[CajunLB]

This is a good subject for me to learn because my next purchase will be a Denon AVR-x4###H.

 

[ParisB]

My fronts roll off at 32hz and my center at 40hz, and I still keep my XO at 80hz.

I occasionally fight the urge to drop them lower but ultimately 80hz sounds best and cleanest.

 

[demoncamber]

Holy thread-surrection, Batman!

First, your speakers should not be set to large, as they are in NO WAY CAPABLE of delivering full range frequency response down to 20Hz. You should set them to small.
Next, your XO for those speakers is way too low. Marketing claims on the b6.2 is 44Hz extension. I would recommend 90Hx XO, then experiment down to 80, and up as high as 120. Your Center will likely do better set to 110Hz as it is rated to 55Hz extension. (Basically, 1 octave above the low end of your speakers is a common consensus for setting XO point.)

Do you have a link to a guide that says this and talks about crossover settings depending on low extensions? I've been looking for something like that.