Denon AVR-X5200W and AVR-X4100W AV Receiver Preview

A

admin

Audioholics Robot
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#1
Denon's newest AV receivers, the AVR-X5200W and AVR-X4100W are packed to the brim with features including Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with SubEQ, integrated wireless, and HDMI 2.0. Of course that's not the big news here. These two models also happen to represent Denon's initial Dolby Atmos ready receiver offerings. The X4100 is a 7.2 channel receiver which is expandable to 9.2 channels via preouts, while the X5200 is a 9.2 channel receiver that can be expanded to 11.2. Three Atmos configurations are possible with the X4100 (5.1.2, 7.1.2, 5.1.4),while the X5200 adds two more to the mix (7.1.4, 9.1.2).



Read the Denon AVR-X5200 and AVR-X4100 Dolby Atmos AV Receiver Preview


Are you upgrading to Dolby Atmos? Planning on getting one of these new Denon receivers? Let us know.
 
Living Stereo

Living Stereo

Enthusiast
#2
I am planning on getting a new Receiver (as my Integra 70.2 has crapped out for the second and last time) and would be interested in what people think about the Denon AVR-X5200 vs the Yamaha RX-A 3040.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
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#3
The 4100 and 5200 have the pre-outs for a 13.2 setup, but I can not find official support for a 13.2 configuration, which, of course, would be theoretically possible with Atmos. I went through the manual for the x5200 and do not see it. If these Denon receivers support a 13.2 channel system, that would give them a leg up over all the other flagship Atmos receivers from the other electronics manufacturers, which top out at 11.2. I will probably have to shoot Denon an email this week sometime to find out for sure, but since it says 11.2 processing, I am guessing a real full 13.2 system isn't supported. In Atmos speak, I suppose this would be called an '9.2.4' setup.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#4
I am planning on getting a new Receiver (as my Integra 70.2 has crapped out for the second and last time) and would be interested in what people think about the Denon AVR-X5200 vs the Yamaha RX-A 3040.
Of course I would unequivocally take the Denon X5200 in a heartbeat. :)
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
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#5
Thanks for the informative preview Steve.

Just took this snippet for a bit of feedback:

Fast forward to today, and the folks at Denon are ready to officially unveil their latest AVR models, the AVR-X4100W and the flagship AVR-X5200W. Priced at $1,399 and $1,999 respectively, both models are expected to be available in October.
Denon may not have announced it yet, but the upcoming AVR-X7200W will be their flagship AVR and successor to the AVR-4520CI. The X7200W is expected to be available in December. Pricing is TBA.


Over and above the X5200W, the X7200W is expected to have: upgraded amps and power supply - 150W X 9 (versus 140W); 32 bit processing (versus 24 bit) and 7.1 EXT IN analog inputs. All in a larger chassis. The step up in features from X1100W through to X7200W is summarised on page 3 here: http://www.profitlineav.com/wp-cont...5-AVR-Linestep-Charts-with-Audyssey-Tiers.pdf. Both the X5200W and X7200X are Made in Japan. The X4100W and below are not.

The X5200W looks like the sweet spot to me. ;)
 
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Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
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#6
Thanks for the informative preview Steve.

Just took this snippet for a bit of feedback:

Denon may not have announced it yet, but the upcoming AVR-X7200W will be their flagship AVR and successor to the AVR-4520CI. The X7200W is expected to be available in December. Pricing is TBA.
Thanks for the info! FWIW, Denon actually tossed the term flagship into their press release, so I ran with it. You can actually see the copy/paste of it here.
AVR-X5200W: A true flagship with 9-channel monolithic amp design
 
Living Stereo

Living Stereo

Enthusiast
#7
Of course I would unequivocally take the Denon X5200 in a heartbeat. :)
Why ? Why do you think is one is better than the other ?
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
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#9
Why ? Why do you think is one is better than the other ?
The Denon has Audyssey XT32, Dual Subwoofer EQ-HT, Dynamic EQ.

For many years, I favored Pure Direct and no EQ, etc. In Pure Direct mode, I think all the AVRs sound similar. But after experiencing Dynamic EQ, I will never go back to Pure Direct/Analog and all that "shortest path" stuff.

Personally, unless the processor has a fantastic equivalent to Dual Independent Subwoofer EQ + Dynamic EQ, I would never buy it.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

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#10
Like most new formats I am not going to be an early adopter. I'll give this 2-3 generations and see where Atmos ends up.
 
Living Stereo

Living Stereo

Enthusiast
#11
The Denon has Audyssey XT32, Dual Subwoofer EQ-HT, Dynamic EQ.
How well does this compare to Yamaha's latest version of YPAO with R.S.C, 3D, multipoint and angle measurement. ?
 
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crossedover

crossedover

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#12
Yow well does this compare to Yamaha's latest version of YPAO with R.S.C, 3D, multipoint and angle measurement. ?
Unfortunately there are no direct published comparisons via 3rd parties
I prefer pioneers room eq with a separate independent sub eq,. Just my preference
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
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#13
How well does this compare to Yamaha's latest version of YPAO with R.S.C, 3D, multipoint and angle measurement. ?
This is my POV.

I actually don't care about the Room Correction software itself. I just care for the Subwoofer EQ & Dynamic EQ. For example, I use Audyssey BYPASS L/R + Dynamic EQ. So for 2.1 music, it bypasses Audyssey Room Correction, but maintains the Subwoofer EQ + Dynamic EQ.

Other companies like Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony, HK use their own proprietary Room Correction software, instead of Audyssey.

The Denon 5200 (also 4100, 7200) has dual independent subwoofer EQ, whereas most companies including Yamaha & Pioneer only have a single subwoofer EQ.

And it seems like Yamaha and other companies have a similar feature to Audyssey Dynamic Volume (which is dynamic compression to increase low volume and decrease high volume).

But I don't think they have an equivalent to Audyssey Dynamic EQ (DEQ),which seems to make the subwoofer bass fuller, snappier, punchier, tighter in my personal experience.

Big commercial systems like IMAX movie theaters and Phase Technology DARTs use Audyssey pro calibration. So next time you go to watch a movie in an IMAX theater, think "Audyssey". :D

In conclusion, you will hear that some people prefer certain room correction software and features from Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, etc. I prefer NONE of them. I just like the Subwoofer EQ & Dynamic EQ in the Denon or Marantz.

And that is my POV. :D

PENG also started a thread on Room Correction Software:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...544-room-eq-systems-avp-avr-users-thread.html
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
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#15
Unfortunately there are no direct published comparisons via 3rd parties
I prefer pioneers room eq with a separate independent sub eq,. Just my preference

Independently EQing each sub is usually the WRONG approach. You get far better and more predictable results if you:
1. properly locate each sub in the room as best as possible
2. properly set level and delay of each sub independently
3. choose the right crossover point (80Hz is a great starting point and works in MOST installs)
4. Apply Global EQ to ALL subs simultaneously

I tested Pioneer's Room EQ a couple of years ago and it was very limited at what it could do at low frequencies. Hopefully they will continue to improve it.
 
F

Foxadn

Audiophyte
Ratings
1
#16
Pre-out channels

Thanks for this great article! These 2 products do offer a lot for the price.

I would just like to add something: when looking at the back panel you can see 13.2 pre-out on both models, which can be confusing.
In reality the difference between the 2 models lies in the number of channel processing (where the horse power is needed):
- AVR-X4100W: 9.2ch processing
- AVR-X5200W: 11.2ch processing

So all the connectors are here to make it easy to adapt your configuration.
But in the end you still can't do a 7.1.4 with the AVR-4100W just by adding external amps.
 
F

Foxadn

Audiophyte
Ratings
1
#17
The 4100 and 5200 have the pre-outs for a 13.2 setup, but I can not find official support for a 13.2 configuration, which, of course, would be theoretically possible with Atmos. I went through the manual for the x5200 and do not see it. If these Denon receivers support a 13.2 channel system, that would give them a leg up over all the other flagship Atmos receivers from the other electronics manufacturers, which top out at 11.2. I will probably have to shoot Denon an email this week sometime to find out for sure, but since it says 11.2 processing, I am guessing a real full 13.2 system isn't supported. In Atmos speak, I suppose this would be called an '9.2.4' setup.
See my reply above.

Info found on the Denon UK website:
- AVR-X5200W - Instruction Manual (p. 205)
- Denon and Dolby Atmos
- AVR-X4100W - Product Information Sheet
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Ratings
893
#19
My one issue with these units (aside from the confusion caused by the number of pre-outs, binding posts, internal amps, and actual number of speakers that can be processed and output simultaneously all being different!) is that they do not include HDCP 2.2 support.


This year, in particular, is such a strange year. The HDMI chips just didn't exist in order to have BOTH full 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0 bandwidth AND HDCP 2.2 on a single HDMI processing chip. Instead, AV Receiver manufacturers had to make a choice - one or the other.


Onkyo/Integra appears to be the only major brand that opted for HDCP 2.2 support. But in order for them to do so, they had to accept a bandwidth limitation of 10.2 Gbps on their HDMI 2.0 connections.


Denon/Marantz, Pioneer, and Yamaha all opted to have the full 18 Gbps bandwidth on their HDMI 2.0 ports, but without HDCP 2.2 support.


So this seems like a spectacularly good year to avoid buying an AV Receiver to me! In a year's time, we'll almost certainly see AV Receivers offering full 18 Gbps bandwidth HDMI 2.0 ports WITH HDCP 2.2 support. I'm also hoping the major AV Receiver brands will take advantage of Dolby Atmos' ability to make use of more speaker positions than we might have initially anticipated.


Dolby released their Atmos for the Home Theater White Paper: http://www.avsforum.com/uploads/Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf


It doesn't answer every question, but it does mention that the Atmos Object Audio Renderer is entirely capable of making use of the existing Front Wide (+/- 55-60 degrees azimuth, ear level) speaker positions, as well as the existing Front Height (+/- 30-45 degrees azimuth, 30-45 degrees elevation) speaker positions. It can also make use of Front-Center L/R positions that go in between the Front Left and Center, and the Center and Front Right speakers. And with up to 5 elevation angles possible overhead, greater precision is entirely possible when it comes to telling your AV Receiver where your ceiling speakers are located during menu setup.


My point is, I highly doubt that any of this year's Atmos-capable AV Receivers will have menu options for anything other than "1 pair of ceiling speakers, 2 pairs of ceiling speakers, or Front Wide speakers". What if you want to use one pair of existing Front Height speakers plus 4 ceiling speakers? That's technically still a 7.1.4 Atmos configuration, but it doesn't appear to be an option in this year's crop. Never-the-less, Dolby's white paper suggests that Front Left, Front Right, Center, Surround Left, Surround Right, Front Height Left, Front Height Right, Ceiling Front Left, Ceiling Front Right, Ceiling Rear Left, and Ceiling Rear Right is an entirely useable speaker placement as far as the Atmos Renderer is concerned.


Anyways, the lack of having both full bandwidth HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 together in any AV Receiver this year gives me great pause. If you're not worried about greater colour bit-depth, high dynamic range, or 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 chroma subsampling, then you're better off going for the HDCP 2.2 support. But then your only options are Onkyo and Integra, and they decided to skimp big time on their DSP processing capabilities this year.


I wish there were just ONE good choice, even if it's expensive, but there isn't. So unless you're cool with upgrading your AV Receiver every 1-2 years, I'd strongly advise waiting for the 2015 crop. Early adopters, have fun! I wish I could join you! But I'll have to wait this one out.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
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#20
I was reading something a while back related to HDCP 2.2 copy protection for movie content for 4k and that most TVs and AVRs today will not support it, does that mean if they do every come out with 4k Players that use HDCP 2.2 it will not display at all?
 

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