R

rocketishere

Enthusiast
Any feedback on the Denon AVR x2500h?
looks like a pretty good price on a last year’s model
Any comparable/favorable receivers in this price range?
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
If U are interested in the best reliability and HDMI/HDCP interoperability...
Yamaha would be the choice...
Rated #1 in reliability and the only AVR brand that has HDMI/HDCP certification. ..

Just my $0.02.... ;)
 
R

rocketishere

Enthusiast
That is worth considering.
when looking at Yamaha, and particular models in mind? Any to avoid?
Thanks for the feedback so far. It is greatly appreciated!
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
That is worth considering.
when looking at Yamaha, and particular models in mind? Any to avoid?
Thanks for the feedback so far. It is greatly appreciated!
Yamaha has a full range of AVRs.. And is carried by most leading AV sellers, also there is a sheltered AVR available @ CostCo. U need to decide on budget, power output, specs, features U require....
Also there are sellers that sell only new A-stock, plus some sellers that sell refurbished B-stock. Whatever model U select be sure to double-check their warranty and return policies especially who pays the freight if required....


Just my $0.02... ;)
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
For what is worth I have had many Yamaha receivers and considered myself a Yamaha guy until I tried Audyssey and got it right after a few fails. I did have an older version of YPAO though so maybe why I think Audyssey XT32 is much better.
 
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H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Also I have to say I messed up Audyssey the first 2 times I tried to use it. It's more complicated than the YPAO I had on my Yamaha. There's a leaving curve with it but once I got it right I was super impressed.
All that said Yamaha does make great receivers, the Aventage line is supposed to be excellent. Great reliability for sure, I had my last one for 10+ years with absolutely no issues.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
We sell/install the major AVR brands including Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha and there are multiple opinions which Room EQ system works the best.. :rolleyes:
Yet many prefer the final audio results without using the auto EQ stuff. I find if U using common sense when setting up the HT system initially most auto Room EQ systems work just fine. My preference for the Yamaha is mainly for its excellent reliability and interoperability for HDMI/HDCP component. In my biz having to send out a tech to double-check, reconfigure and/or replace an HDMI component is simply too costly... Besides we provide a 5 year warranty so the components need to last. So about 75% of our system sales are designed/built around an Yamaha AVR or processor.

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yamaha
Pros: Reliability, Compatibility, Much much much Better WiFi Apps for Remote and MusicCast, Manual Parametric EQ for all speakers and Subwoofers

Cons: YPAO isn’t as good as XT32, price can be twice as much as Denon


Denon
Pros: Price can be half the price of Yamaha, Audyssey XT32 is better than YPAO

Cons: No Manual Parametric EQ, no Manual EQ for Subwoofers at all, Not as Reliable or Compatible, WiFi Remote really sucks, WiFi Music Streaming not as compatible/reliable (at least for me)
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Yamaha
Pros: Reliability, Compatibility, Much much much Better WiFi Apps for Remote and MusicCast, Manual Parametric EQ for all speakers and Subwoofers

Cons: YPAO isn’t as good as XT32, price can be twice as much as Denon


Denon
Pros: Price can be half the price of Yamaha, Audyssey XT32 is better than YPAO

Cons: No Manual Parametric EQ, no Manual EQ for Subwoofers at all, Not as Reliable or Compatible, WiFi Remote really sucks, WiFi Music Streaming not as compatible/reliable (at least for me)

Totally agree that @ times a Denon AVR may be much cheaper than a Yamaha...
But again, I guess I am more old-school, the lowest cost is not always the best deal/value..
@ least that's what pappy used to say.. :)

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Then again some of us have had very good experiences with Denon (& Marantz since they're sharing most things but marketing angle). So I will inject perhaps a different viewpoint.

Denon does not have MusicCast at all, it has Heos (and have read of more problems using MusicCast than Heos generally). I've used the IP control for Denon without issue, altho the android app for using your phone as a remote that Denon provided wasn't the best (and for older models there was an alternative private app that worked better too), but I use a Harmony remote so not a big issue for me at least. I don't think various music service type apps installed on the avr itself have been particularly superior on Yamaha over other providers from what I've read.

As far as apps go, the Audyssey app does put it in a different league from YPAO; parametric EQ Denon doesn't have but perhaps doesn't need as much as a result of the better program (altho it perhaps would be nice to have parametric eq on board as an option). Whether or not you wish to use a roomeq type program at all is something else, some don't like any eq at all (let alone a tweaker of bass eq like ADTG, a former Denon promoter but upset that his ridiculously priced and unique pre-pro couldn't be fixed, not to say that's not an issue, just not an issue many experienced as few had that particular unit and Denon doesn't even offer a pre-pro any more except for a very basic stripped down "pro" version).

HDMI/HDCP issues are still going to be a potential problem unless you use all Yamaha branded gear, but hasn't been a particular issue much with Denon that I've read about (or experienced) and most of the issues about HDMI use seem to be generally just a mixing of various brands that don't follow the same implementation of HDMI-CEC particularly (such as ARC, which is fairly useless to begin with IMO). Can't say I've read about any HDCP issues particularly at all.

Denon is usually more competitively priced for the feature set (and sometimes Marantz, altho generally Denon pricing is better than Marantz at least in the US). Yamaha has had some issues with pre-out levels and over zealous protection schemes too (e.g. see Audioholics review of A860). Yamaha uses odd terminology to describe several functions compared to others, too.

I'd wager the reliability issue is marginally different for Yamaha rather than greatly different (nature of consumer electronics generally), and have read about issues with Yamaha units as well as others. Mcode doesn't really share his in-industry survey details on which he bases his reliability info, so hard to know just what the numbers are or how they're compiled and based. Who cares about people who can't operate or install their own systems? (not really serious, but personally don't even understand why someone couldn't plug a component in and set it up themselves, especially those willing to dig into a forum like this).

Yamaha does have better corporate/financial stability the last several years and controls their manufacturing more in-house; we'll see if Sound United can't improve on the past coupla owners of Denon/Marantz brands.

I still say pick an avr based on features you want at a price you want. If a refurb, A4L will pay return freight on defective refurbs (certainly a risk to think about and have experienced such myself), but they are not a good place to shop if you're a fickle consumer and simply want to return something for free because you changed your mind (definitely some other retailers have an advantage here with satisfaction guarantees across the board, but they're not quite in the same market as A4L either).

Just my take on it....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't know if FW updates have anything to do with some of the apparent issues, but I can say with certainty that after a few updates I don't recall having any HDMI hand shake issues any more.
 
G

Grandzoltar

Full Audioholic
Using the app on my Denon I can adjust the flat curve from any frequency. It may not have a parametric eq but I can add or subtract dBs to the curve so there is some adjustment I wouldn’t say there’s none.
 
R

rocketishere

Enthusiast
Thanks for all the input. I may wait to see what deals come along for Black Friday. Thanks to you folks I have a better idea of what to consider for my decision.
 
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