Denon 3310 and XLR Pre-amp compatible outputs?

J

jsulse

Audioholic Intern
Can someone clear up my confusion here. The Denon web site says that the 3310 has the pre-amp outputs "12 RCA & XLR types/Configurable". Looked at the pic of the rear of the unit, no XLR female jacks... Do the published specs refer to the pre-amp out puts having the required voltage (around 4V I believe) to correctly drive a commercial amp such as the Yamaha P3500S?

You can see the spec sheet here:

http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=f234eea1-3300-4537-8f59-f6cd2f3441d6&SubId=0&ProductId=e1c9f0a4-c554-4e23-908a-0c0025efa946

Looking to find an AVR under $1K with 12V trigger to use as a preamp for LRC powered by Yamaha commercial P3500S amps and use it's internal amps to power the rears. If I can find an AVR with the correct voltage to drive the Yamaha with XLR inputs would simplify things.

Thanks
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Can someone clear up my confusion here. The Denon web site says that the 3310 has the pre-amp outputs "12 RCA & XLR types/Configurable". Looked at the pic of the rear of the unit, no XLR female jacks... Do the published specs refer to the pre-amp out puts having the required voltage (around 4V I believe) to correctly drive a commercial amp such as the Yamaha P3500S?

Looking to find an AVR under $1K with 12V trigger to use as a preamp for LRC powered by Yamaha commercial P3500S amps and use it's internal amps to power the rears. If I can find an AVR with the correct voltage to drive the Yamaha with XLR inputs would simplify things.

Thanks
Look at the Detailed Specifications page- 15-16 lines above the 'General' tab (in bold type), it shows XLR Analog output with a dash next to them.

As far as 4V output, are you sure it's 4V and not +4dBu? I think you'll need to call at least one of the manufacturers for this info.

Being a consumer piece, I doubt the output will reach 4V, though. Where did you see 4V? I looked all over that link and didn't see it.
 
J

jsulse

Audioholic Intern
I maybe mistaken about the "4v". While reading as much as I can here about using amps with XLR inputs a warning was given to make sure the receiver is capable of sending a high enough voltage to the amp. Otherwise, the gain on the amp will have to be turned all the way up which may result is audible hiss. There are units on the market to convert RCA to XLR (CleanBox), just want to avoid buying/adding additional equipment.
 
avnetguy

avnetguy

Audioholic Chief
In my recent hunting around all these units have the -10db unbalanced output only so they'll require some level conversion. Best to fire off an email to Denon to be sure though.
 
J

jsulse

Audioholic Intern
Thanks guys. It looks like I'm going to roll with the Denon 4310. It's a really great receiver from what I gather and read a review which tested the RCA pre outs having the required voltage (up to 4v rms) for use with commercial amps. Just need RCA/XLR adapter cables, no big deal. It was hard to choose in this price range, tough competition in $1K price range. Going to hear how the 130wpc of the Denon drives the JTR T-8's run then upgrade as needed.
 
avnetguy

avnetguy

Audioholic Chief
I'm sure that 4310 will sound awesome!
If you end up going with the P3500S please drop a message here as I'm very interested in your thoughts on that amp, I've been looking at the P2500S for myself.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Thanks guys. It looks like I'm going to roll with the Denon 4310. It's a really great receiver from what I gather and read a review which tested the RCA pre outs having the required voltage (up to 4v rms) for use with commercial amps. Just need RCA/XLR adapter cables, no big deal. It was hard to choose in this price range, tough competition in $1K price range. Going to hear how the 130wpc of the Denon drives the JTR T-8's run then upgrade as needed.
For all your Cabling needs check out MONOPRICE dot com. Nice cables for great prices. Put the most money into speakers first, then Amp(s), then Pre/Pro, in that order if I know what I know now.
 
J

jsulse

Audioholic Intern
Will post impressions of Yamaha commercial P3500 amps if I end up getting two. The young rocker in me (I played the drums in a few bands during my ill spent youth) really wants to drive the JTR's with some serious clean power! Received the Denon 4310 today along with the Panny P65S2!! :D

Was just on Monoprice.com looking at cables. They do have affordable prices. For the prices they offer definitely worth checking out. Not buying into the "snake oil" associated with "high end" cables but just wondering how good their cables are because their prices are quite low. My system will see some critical music listening so would like some impressions on how they worked out for that purpose.
 
zildjian

zildjian

Audioholic Chief
If I can find an AVR with the correct voltage to drive the Yamaha with XLR inputs would simplify things.
Is there a problem with using the RCA -10dB signal and feed the Yamaha's 1/4" input jacks with it? If there's not a super long cable run needed, the end result would be the same if you use that set up vs unbalanced to balanced converter then used the balanced cables because your original signal is still not balanced, so there's not really a benefit to do it unless you just can't use the 1/4" inputs for some reason or you just want to play with the balanced inputs for the heck of it. Just don't want you to spend the money for the converter box thinking it's going to improve the outcome. I'd try the 1/4" inputs first using an RCA to 1/4" mono adapter.
 
J

jsulse

Audioholic Intern
Well, I don't know if it makes a difference using RCA to XLR adapters vs. RCA to 1/4" adapters with my Denon 4310.

To clarify, my research here in Audioholics has reveled three major issues, listed in personal importance, when using commercial amps with AVR's in a home theater application. First is having the correct 4v rms maximum pre-out voltage on AVR to correctly signal to the amp. If the preout voltage is too low then the gain on the amp would need to be turned near maximum which may induce audible "hiss". The Denon 4310 I purchased has pre-outs with around 4v rms, a major reason I went with this model. It has other positive qualities as well. ;) Second issue is lack of 12v trigger. This can be handled a variety of ways from simple 12v activated power strips to more elaborate custom DIY 12v relays. And third is fan noise. Yamaha P series amps have thermosat activated variable speed fans. Doubt most of us can drive these amps hard enough to have the fan come on with out having our "ears bleed" but they are the quiet type so if they do come on you won't hear them.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Well, I don't know if it makes a difference using RCA to XLR adapters vs. RCA to 1/4" adapters with my Denon 4310.

To clarify, my research here in Audioholics has reveled three major issues, listed in personal importance, when using commercial amps with AVR's in a home theater application. First is having the correct 4v rms maximum pre-out voltage on AVR to correctly signal to the amp. If the preout voltage is too low then the gain on the amp would need to be turned near maximum which may induce audible "hiss". The Denon 4310 I purchased has pre-outs with around 4v rms, a major reason I went with this model. It has other positive qualities as well. ;) Second issue is lack of 12v trigger. This can be handled a variety of ways from simple 12v activated power strips to more elaborate custom DIY 12v relays. And third is fan noise. Yamaha P series amps have thermosat activated variable speed fans. Doubt most of us can drive these amps hard enough to have the fan come on with out having our "ears bleed" but they are the quiet type so if they do come on you won't hear them.
While I used to have a dedicated pre/pro, I've been using a receiver as pre/pro for years now. Since I'm not going to add a trigger mechanism, doesn't matter to me.

I just sold my Samson SConvert to a member here, and the truth is I didn't need it at all. I believe the idea behind getting sufficient preout voltage is so that you have full potential performance of the amplifier. I think if I used even half of what the amp could give me, I wouldn't have a roof anymore. With the SConvert in place for only seconds, I thought the house was going to fall down.

My fans have never once been activated ever, and I've shook the place pretty good a few times. However, my sub is extremely efficient.

I will tell you the ONLY thing that has been an issue for me, and it was unexpected. The darn display and power light are SO CRAZY BRIGHT. Haha. Now, if my components were hidden in a closet or something, this wouldn't matter, but they are on the back wall, and have an extremely adverse affect on my projection system. I have to use black electrical tape, even window tint is not good enough. There are no adjustments for "dimmer" like with consumer grade products.

OTOH, there are some great bonuses with going this route, and the unexpected big one was the use of BM software that is free to DL, with 20 settings that can be stored and right into the amplifier (Crown XTi), and I can access them all from the front panel. However, if I actually did want to change the presets, I'd have to temporarily remove the black tape to see the display. :rolleyes: When the laptop is plugged (needs to be to make changes and/or new presets), I don't need to take off the tape, and simply have the computer select the desired preset at the time.

Ok another great thing I learned about with pro stuff is the Neutrik Speakons. Man, they are the best, and I wish ALL consumer products, even receivers, speakers, etc, used them. Forget about 5 way binding posts, Speakons FTW. If I ever build some speakers, they will definitely have Speakons, and no 5-ways.
 
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