Denon 2105 Vs. 2805

[Takeereasy]

Is it just me, or is it that for anyone planning a one room HT the 2105 represents a better buy? It seems that the main difference is 10w power and the fact that the 2805 has more analog inputs and one more digital output as well as the 12v triggers. Oh yeah, and the $300 CDN in favour of the 2105.

Did Denon shoot themselves in the foot by offering a viable conternder to the 2805 in their own family, or are they hitting the nail right on the head for another group of HT enthusiasts with a totally different product? I am asking because I was seriously considering the 2805, but after reading the specs for the 2105 I think I may have a new front runner.

All this being said I have heard the 2805 but not the 2105 (not yet anyway). Am I missing something? Is there anything that truely seperates the two and makes the 2805 the better buy? My receiver purchase is a ways down the road, but I am trying to stay up to speed here.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Big difference. The 2805 compares more to the 3805, and the 2105 more to the cheaper 1705 and 1905 models. There were some threads a few months ago here that complained about the 2105 overheating. They seem oddly comparable, but you rarely ever see problems on the 2805. What is your budget, by the way?

 

[Jase]

The 2805 has Room EQ, Dual DAC's per channel, Alpha Processing, Audio Delay for Lip Sync, 7.1 External Decoder Inputs, more digital inputs & more video inputs.

 

[Takeereasy]

HMMMM.....There's some food for thought.

Buckeye, I hadn't read about the heat problems and on closer inspection the front pannel of the 2805 does resemble the 3805 more (despite the fact that the dimensions of the 2105 and 2805 are identical). I really do like the dispaly providing more info the way that the 2805 does, but I was ready to give that up if need be. My budget is small/smallish medium but flexible. By that I mean that the highest I can go (justify to the boss) is the 2105 in the near future. That being said if I delay the purchase a few months longer, then the green could be there for a 2805. I am not married to the Denon brand yet, but like I said I have heard the 2805, and when I did it impressed me greatly. Also I am afraid of the Onkyo 702 because of video switching problems and speaker popping that I have read about on this site and others but I loved the way it sounded when I heard it. Also I am warry of Marantz because the 7400 I have heard really doesn't do it for me and costs about a grand up here. Yamaha and Harman are still in the race but my speakers do dip to 4 ohms and are rated at 6 ohms so I am a little afraid of the Yammies as well. These are the only receivers I can get locally (besides Linn or going to Arcam seperates).

Jase, I was ready to give up the extra inputs for cost effectiveness. All I cared about was the video up conversion and the auto calibration. I was silly enough to think that the 2105 came with the audio delay as well even though I didn't see it listed. Could you please explain Alpha Processing and Dual Dacs? I know what a dac is, but how does a dual dac function?

 

[Jase]

From the Denon UK site:-

"Alpha Processing is a process that interpolates 24 bits from standard 16 bit digital material. The ALPHA processer interpolates the digital data recorded on a CD and reproduces it in a waveform that is very close to the way these musical signals would look in a natural analog waveform. The 2805 has AL24 Processing for it's front channels."

Here's info that I posted a couple of years ago at another Forum about Dual Dac's and also mentions Alpha Processing. It originally came from one of Denon's Tech Guys.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38338&highlight=denon+dual+dac's

"A DAC will have a specific dynamic range, measuring full scale output to the noise floor. But, a DAC that has a specific word length capability will not have a similarly high dynamic range output, i.e., a 24 bit DAC can indeed process PCM input data with up to 24 bit word length, but that DAC will not have a usable 24 bit dynamic range - dynamic range is calculated in dB as (6n) 1.76, where n=wordlength - quality 24 bit DACs typically have a dynamic range of over 100 dB, but not the same as the theoretical 144 or so dB of dynamic range that the 24 bit wordlength describes.

So to increase the dynamic range, the designer may choose to "double up" the DAC parts, and have 2 DAC´s parallel-processing 1 audio channels output. Each DAC is operating "out of phase"with respect to the other (digitally speaking), their 2 outputs are then combined, this provides a 6db increase in gain, along with a 2db rise in noise, giving therefore a net increase of 4db dynamic range. Such a configuration is called differential mode, or differential-DAC mode. Top end outboard D/A converters often are configured with differential-DAC configuration. Our DVD-5000 dvd player was equipped with a differential-DAC output stage (2 Burr Brown PCM -1704 DAC´s per channel).

The AVR 5800 (A1SE), in Pure Direct (stereo) mode, uses 4 DAC´s per audio channel in what is called differential-differential mode, or dual-differential mode. This provides a roughly 8db practical increase in dynamic range, compared to single DAC/channel operation - quite a substantial improvement.

The audible result is improved very low signal level resolution. We use the Analog Devices AD-1853 DAC, a very high performance 24 bit/192 Khz part. In Pure Direct mode, the AVR 5800´s (A1SE) dual-differential operation provides improved reproduction with very wide dynamic range source material. Plus, Denon´s AL24 (ALPHA 24) DSP upsampling/interpolation algorithm is engaged, which further improves the low level resolution."

 

[snakeyes]

just to help you close the price gap look at the denon 985 its the same thing as the 2805 just sold to different outlets.and is $100-$200 cheaper.

 

[MDS]

From the Denon UK site:-

"Alpha Processing is a process that interpolates 24 bits from standard 16 bit digital material. The ALPHA processer interpolates the digital data recorded on a CD and reproduces it in a waveform that is very close to the way these musical signals would look in a natural analog waveform. The 2805 has AL24 Processing for it's front channels."

This is simply upsampling. The notion that it 'reproduces it in a waveform that is very close to the way these musical signals would look in a natural analog waveform' is pure marketing drivel.

Upsampling cannot magically put back information that was lost when the original analog signal was sampled. We have no idea whether the original CD was recorded and mastered at 16 bit or recorded at 20 or 24 bits and dithered down to 16 bit. Regardless, interpolating (ie 'intelligent guessing') the missing samples will not put back the original samples if the cd was recorded at a bit depth higher than 16.

The only value of upsampling is when the signal will be further processed by another DSP operation. Increasing the word length will then help to avoid loss of precision when performing calculations. Upsampling is useful when editing audio, but no so much for playback.

 

[Takeereasy]

Thanks for the info Jase and Snakeyes and Anon. Sorry not to reply till now, but I had to duck out for the weekend early. Snakeyes, I haven't found anyone up here that carries the 985. I don't think our chain stores carry the same number of brands as yours, and I'm pretty sure that the 985 is the model that is chain store carried. WE have 2 chain stores up here, Best Buy and Futureshop. Bestbuy only sells Yamaha Sony and Pioneer receivers, and does not sell pioneer elite products. Futureshop sells Yamaha, Sony, and Harman Kardon. The Harman Kardons have the highest markup I've ever seen on a product. An AVR-135 will cost you $699 CDN. If you want any other brand you have to go to a specialty shop. If you think the selection of receivers sucks you should see the speaker selection. Essentially it consists of the entry level models for JBL, Infinity, No name brands, and every model of Bose conceivable. Futureshop does carry some Athena Products.

Jase thanks for the info and the link.

 

[ch266]

I am debating on buying the 2805 refurbished from either ecost.com or onsale.com they are both around the 500-550 range.
for 550 +s/h
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=470069
for 500 +s/h
http://www.onsale.com/onsale/shop/detail.asp?dpno=470069

Do you guys think its worth the money to get the 2805 refurb over getting the 2105 retail for about the same money?

 

[shokhead]

Got mine from Dakmart with no problems. As long as they are an auth. dealer.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I am debating on buying the 2805 refurbished from either ecost.com or onsale.com they are both around the 500-550 range.
for 550 +s/h
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=470069
for 500 +s/h
http://www.onsale.com/onsale/shop/detail.asp?dpno=470069

Do you guys think its worth the money to get the 2805 refurb over getting the 2105 retail for about the same money?

The 2805 blows the 2105 away. No comparison IMO.

 

[shokhead]

Whats the difference? Not much. A few less ins and outs for the 2105 but still enough. AL24 Processing,front for 2805 and none for 2105. Audi signal delay,none for 2105 and Pure Direct/Direct Stereo,none for 2105 but none of those things are deal killers for me so both hooked up to the same dvd player and same speakers,close your eyes and nobody can tell the difference. 2105 for $499 at good guys is a pretty good deal.