Definitive tech bipolars vs my current mirage M3--opinions?

[Berner]

--Anyone know how defin tech bipolars SOUND vs Mirage M3s?
--Any other DYNAMIC (not electrostatic) bipolar speakers I should consider? Price: preferably under $1500, certainly not more than $3000

I'm thinking of upgrading my 1987 stereo system and the person I spoke with at Mirage told me that their recently current speakers are brighter which is not my taste.

Thanks for your time

My system (all from 1987)
--Kinergetics amp KBA 75
--Rowland consonance preamp
--JVC DVD player XL Z1010 (absolute sound pic).
--Mirage M-3s

 

[PENG]

None of the older DT models could compare with the M1 but it is just my opinion. May be their newest models are better but I would still keep the M1.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here are the measurements of the Mirage M3 from Stereophile:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3si-loudspeaker-measurements

Stereophile does not have a measurement of the DefTech BP, but here is the HTM measurements of one:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/definitive-technology-bp-8080st-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

Just comparing their on-axis responses, the Def Tech is ~ +/-3dB from 200Hz-10kHz, +/-2dB from 200Hz-8kHz; the M3 is +/- 5dB from 200Hz-5kHz-10kHz.

So the DefTech has better measurements.

I don't know about the 60-degrees off axis polar response of the DefTech, but the M3 looks really bad.

 

[Berner]

Thanks Peng, I'm getting that feeling.

AcuDefTechGuy,

I appreciate your effort to dig up measurements, but I don't think measurements explains why the Mirage sound so right, why Bose 901s have been selling forever and probably why your bipolar speakers (are I gather) well received. Perhaps this FROM ABSOLUTE SOUND FORUM explains things:

avguide.com/forums/the-new-and-improved-bose-901-series-6-mk2s?page=1

I think there definitely "is something to the dipole thing"! And I think the "something" is that the limited dispersion thru the mids and high frequencies of typical cone and dome loudspeakers just does not approximate the way sound is produced and dispersed in live music, whether it be acoustic or electric.

Of course, I don't think dipoles are the only path to nirvana; or bipoles, "omni"poles or whatever pigeon hole you might put the Bose 901 in. I just think that the typical small to medium size living space can not sound anything like live music with narrow dispersion speakers because they almost always will be the obvious sound sources, especially the higher up you go in frequency. To me, everything sounds reduced in size, shrunken down to miniature status. And the "pinpoint imaging", while impressive for awhile, just isn't very realistic if you compare to live sound.

 

[jshouse23]

Deff Tech has many Bi-Polar speakers. The ones to look for are the ones with the built in powered sub. The BP-80X0 series is in my opinion the best. The BP-8060 compared favorably to 2 different Focal Speakers at twice the Deff Tech's cost. As long as you use the powered sub correctly the speakers have some of the smoothest sound quality I have ever heard. For a budget, the BP-8020's are still expensive at 1200 a pair but online you can find them cheaper (much cheaper) and they are again some of the best quality sound I've heard. No tin, nice resonance. I used to sell them and when we played them against some bigger more expensive speakers (Martin Logan, Focal, Mirage-not the m3) the Deff Techs were often favored by the guest.

 

[bmurphy2121]

I have Def Tech's and love them. I have the BP7002, BPX, clr 2002, and the super cube I. I love how they soud and open up a room to more realistic sounds. I do think they are a little harder to set up compared to direct fired speakers but once you get them set up they sound great. Best money that I have spent in a long time.

 

[Pat D]

Here are the measurements of the Mirage M3 from Stereophile:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3si-loudspeaker-measurements

Stereophile does not have a measurement of the DefTech BP, but here is the HTM measurements of one:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/definitive-technology-bp-8080st-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

Just comparing their on-axis responses, the Def Tech is ~ +/-3dB from 200Hz-10kHz, +/-2dB from 200Hz-8kHz; the M3 is +/- 5dB from 200Hz-5kHz-10kHz.

So the DefTech has better measurements.

I don't know about the 60-degrees off axis polar response of the DefTech, but the M3 looks really bad.

The measurements of the DefTech speaker look to be smoothed, so we don't really know how even the response is, though they seem to indicate a brighter overall balance than the Mirage has.

Actually, the off axis response of the Mirage M3si in the 1992 Stereophile review doesn't look all that bad, especially considering that most of the measurements were not done on the woofer axis where the response looks much better. Check out Figure 6, which looks quite good, indicating that with some care in set up (and raising the speaker a bit), they probably can sound quite good.

I auditioned the M3si back in the early 90s, and they sounded pretty good. That far back, it's impossible to remember many details, but I remember a Dutch mezzo-soprano, Jard van Nes, sounded very good. My dealer's room was quite large, so I don't know what it would have sounded like at home. Anyway, it was not to my taste.

The original poster mentions the Mirage M3, however, which was measured by Stereophile in 1990. Since the poster mentions his 1987 system, I think he really is talking about the M3. Stereophile's measurements in 1990 were not as detailed as in 1992, and they didn't show the off axis responses.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[dbster]

Berner:
I know this is referring to a post that's more than 4 years old, but I also am still running a KBA-75. Works fine but I wanted to know if you have any service info on it - manual, schematic, ...

--Anyone know how defin tech bipolars SOUND vs Mirage M3s?
--Any other DYNAMIC (not electrostatic) bipolar speakers I should consider? Price: preferably under $1500, certainly not more than $3000

I'm thinking of upgrading my 1987 stereo system and the person I spoke with at Mirage told me that their recently current speakers are brighter which is not my taste.

Thanks for your time

My system (all from 1987)
--Kinergetics amp KBA 75
--Rowland consonance preamp
--JVC DVD player XL Z1010 (absolute sound pic).
--Mirage M-3s