Definitive BP10 Replacement Suggestion

[m5isa540]

I currently have four Definitive PB10's, a CLR 2002 center, and a Velodyne HGS15 subwoofer in my home theater. Everything is hooked up to a Yamaha HTR-6090. Simply put, I am very disappointed in the BP10's because they don't have that deep rich sound I am listening for. They are just loud and bright.

I want to replace the BP 10's with something a bit more refined that is in the $700-$800ish price range (each). This is primarily for home theater use. But we also listen to music down there every now and then. There are so many speaker out there it is overwhelming. Does anyone have a suggestion?

 

[GlocksRock]

Placement is crucial with those speakers, have you tried repositioning them? Also, does your receiver have any type of eq you can apply to try to make them less bright?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

So why did you buy them (especially four of them) in the first place? Did you not listen first?

 

[Midcow2]

You probably don't want to hear my first recommendation, so I will give you my second

My second recommendation is to upgrade to B&W 683 speakers, retail $1,500 per pair.

 

[m5isa540]

I purchased the BP10's when I was a not knowledgeable about bi polar speakers and the guys at Magnolia HiFi were more interested in a sale than in making sure I was buying the right product. Besides, they sounded pretty good in the showroom (as they always do), they were on sale for nearly half price and they gave me the same deal on the CLR 2002. Yes, I am aware the BP10's are reflective and positioning can have impact on sound. But I have had no luck there. I have a fairly large 20 X 18 room with sloped 15 foot high ceiling; lots of harsh angles and hard flat surfaces.

I will check out the B&W's. I am open to further suggestions.

Thanks!

 

[GlocksRock]

Have you considered using any room treatments?

 

[m5isa540]

My second recommendation is to upgrade to B&W 683 speakers, retail $1,500 per pair.

I am open to your first suggestion as well......

 

[m5isa540]

Looks like I have stired the Def Tech pot based on the number of Def Tech owners responsing to my post. Perhaps the BP10's are ok and I need a different receiver or an equalizer. What do you Def Tech guys think? Are the BP10's audiophile quality components?

 

[m5isa540]

So why did you buy them (especially four of them) in the first place? Did you not listen first?

No, I didn't listen to them at all. I bought them from this really nice guy in the Home Depot parking lot. He had them in the back of his Black Van. They looked real cool and shiney and tall so I bought them. He originally wanted $3000 for each speaker. I am a real negotiator and got him down to $1500 each. There were even $3500 price stickers on each box. But I didn't bother to point that out to him. We went to my bank together and I paid him cash. I even got a hand written receipt and he help load them into my Yugo. He was such a nice guy and he knew a lot about speakers and stuff. I got one heck of a deal on these speakers guys.

Of course I $%#@#$ listened to them!!!!!!

 

[bandphan]

Looks like I have stired the Def Tech pot based on the number of Def Tech owners responsing to my post. Perhaps the BP10's are ok and I need a different receiver or an equalizer. What do you Def Tech guys think? Are the BP10's audiophile quality components?

well i think the dt owners might be the ones to point you in right direction. The consideration of room treatments was a good one. Also properly EQn the room/speakers will help alot. If you liked the way they sounded there, chances are its your room.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/
http://www.parkaveelectronics.com/product.asp?itemid=BEHFBQ2496&l=Froogle
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfdguide/
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/8082-bfd-2496-setup-graphs.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Some people like the higher frequencies above +0dB, and some people like them below +0dB.

That's why some people like to use Equalizers to Tone Up or Down the Lower and Higher Frequencies.

If you look at some SPL vs Frequency graphs, you will see that some speakers will have the lower frequencies (< 100 Hz) above +0dB, and the higher frequencies (> 1 kHz) below +0dB on average (+/-).

Some speakers will have the higher frequencies (especially > 10 kHz) around -3dB, some @ -6dB, and I've seen some @ -20dB.

If you do not like a lot of Treble, then you might look at speakers that have what they call a high-frequency roll-off, which means that the higher frequencies (treble) will be at a LOWER volume than the lower and middle frequencies.

Look at this PSB speaker graph:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1207psb/index2.html
You will see that from 2 kHz – 20 kHz, the level is from -1dB to -6dB.

Energy speaker graph:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/507energy/index2.html
From about 600 Hz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -6dB.

Mirage:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/506mirage/index2.html
From about 4 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -5dB.

Revel:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/506revel/index2.html
From 2 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -3dB.

Sonus Faber:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/106sonus/index2.html
From 2 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -3dB.

B&W:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1005bw/index2.html
From 1 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -6dB.

DefTech Mythos ST:
http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/1107deftech/index4.html
From 6 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -5dB.

AV123 Rocket:
http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/305rocket/index4.html
From 3 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -7dB (on-axis).

DefTech BP7001SC:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/7222003115850.pdf
From 9 kHz – 20 kHz, it stays below +0dB, down to about -5dB.

These are some examples of high-frequency roll-off.

There are a lot of speakers that do not have this high-freq roll-off.

It's not about accuracy. It's about preference. A lot of DefTech speakers are within specs of +/-3dB, but the high frequencies are usually from +0dB to +3dB. If you don't like treble, then you need speakers that have this roll-off.

 

[m5isa540]

Yesterday afternoon I went to my local Home Theater store and listened to a Home Theater System (comparable to my HTR 6090) with a Rotel RMB-1095 multi channel power amp between it and a pair of B&W 683 towers. I also listened to the same setup with a pair BP10's. The difference between the B&W and the BP10's was stunning. But, the BP10's sounded better with the AMP than without the amp. I guess there is something to say for big power and high quality components. The dealer will let me take the Rotel home over the weekend for a test drive. If I like it with my BP10's in my theater room I will probably buy it. Next step will be to begin an entire system upgrade starting with B&W speakers and center channel, and a Rotel processor. Unfortunately, that won't happen until next year.

Thanks to all for your suggestions....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yesterday afternoon I went to my local Home Theater store and listened to a Home Theater System (comparable to my HTR 6090) with a Rotel RMB-1095 multi channel power amp between it and a pair of B&W 683 towers. I also listened to the same setup with a pair BP10's. The difference between the B&W and the BP10's was stunning. But, the BP10's sounded better with the AMP than without the amp. I guess there is something to say for big power and high quality components. The dealer will let me take the Rotel home over the weekend for a test drive. If I like it with my BP10's in my theater room I will probably buy it. Next step will be to begin an entire system upgrade starting with B&W speakers and center channel, and a Rotel processor. Unfortunately, that won't happen until next year.

Thanks to all for your suggestions....

The B&W 683 tower looks pretty good:

http://www.hometheaterstore.com/B_W_683_3_Way_Vented_Floor_Standing_Speaker_p/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=683&Show=TechSpecs

What was the price at your dealer?

 

[m5isa540]

The B&W 683 tower looks pretty good:

http://www.hometheaterstore.com/B_W_683_3_Way_Vented_Floor_Standing_Speaker_p/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=683&Show=TechSpecs

What was the price at your dealer?

Right at $1500 for a pair of the B&W 683 towers. But the dealer was willing to give a good discount if I purchased the B&W center channel and a Rotel power amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right at $1500 for a pair of the B&W 683 towers. But the dealer was willing to give a good discount if I purchased the B&W center channel and a Rotel power amp.

You might as well ask him how much more discount can he give if you were to buy the matching surround speakers and subwoofer.

 

[Curtkc]

Check out room

I believe your sloping ceiling is probably causing some of the problems. You certainly have a very good sub. I would suggest that your room is at issue here. There are some excellent remedies for DIY analysis at Hometheatermag.com. If you are really looking for speakers as the solution I would seek a home demo as part of the buying deal. Def Tech 7002s sound like it would be a speaker answer if warranted, but I don't believe that's your problem.

HT: Lexicon DC-1 V3
Pioneer Elite DV-37 DVD
Sony PS-3 (Blue Ray DVD use only)
Phase Linear 400 amp (Bob Carver's first company)
Marantz MA 500 Monoblocks (7)
Sunfire Sub
Def Tech 7002 mains
Def Tech CLR 2500
Def Tech BP2X sides
Def Tech BP-1 rears
Room: 18x24
Zone 2: Def Tech 2004 main
Sony ES DVD changer
Parasound HCA1500 amp

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I would try room treatment first and then throw the DTs out...

 

[GlocksRock]

I would try room treatment first and then throw the DTs out...

Good idea, that way if it still doesn't help, the room treatments will still be beneficial for the next speakers.

 

[fredk]

I didn't listen to them at all. I bought them from this really nice guy in the Home Depot parking lot

Too funny...

Lots of good suggestions in this thread. I'll add one comment.

Before you decide the B&W is your next speaker, take the time to listen to a few more. See if you can find a dealer that carries B&W and a few other brands like PSB. Listen and compare in and A/B (where you can switch back and forth) environment.

You may end up still thinking the B&W is the best for you, but at least this time you will know that they are for sure.

Good luck.

Fred

 

[Demonster]

Def Tech Tuning

I had the same issues when auditioning the def techs in the showroom. I found that I could manage the brightness of the speakers by using the recievers EQ t0 tune the treble to -8 to -10 db while adjusting the mids to + 6 db and the bass to + 4 db with the internal subwoofer gain set to 12 oclock (7002's). It was a little to much tinkering for me to buy em but I was able to tune them quite a bit. I am sure you have tried just about everything but if you havent shot the wad on the internal EQ give it a try they are forgiving to significant changes in EQ settings.

IMO 30-40% of the highs were muted in the showroom whe the curtians on the wall behind the speaker were there. When I pulled the curtian the high became overwhelming. The take away - put an old T-shirt over the back of the speaker to see if it mutes enough of the highs to make em work. Not audiophile but may give you enjoyment until you change.