dedicated amplifier pros cons

[gcmarshall]

hi all. me again. the guy with split personalities. one part of me says "buy it al ready" and the other part says "hold on a second".

i have the Yam RX-V2500 mated to Boston Acoustic VR3 speakers (93 bd sensitivity and 250 watts max amp). center is Polk CSi5, surrounds are Polk FXi5.

i am in a position where i can give myself a very good home theater/2 channel audio experience, thought not necessarily at price levels like mcintosh, krell, etc.

i guess where i am hung up is as follows --

i don't mind the potential $2,000 outlay for, say, a rotel RMB-1095 (200watts x5 channels). i just would hate the result being that i spend $2,000 and end up with a nickel's worth of difference or a nickel's worth of improvement over my yamaha's amps. does that make sense? if i could feel comfortable that a 200x5 dedicated amp would be a night/day improvement over my current setup, i would take the plunge.

any thoughts are welcome and appreciated. would an amp upgrade such as this rotel make a night/day difference, marginal differences, or is the only way to know to do an in-home demo?

 

[mulester7]

if i could feel comfortable that a 200x5 dedicated amp would be a night/day improvement over my current setup, i would take the plunge.

or is the only way to know to do an in-home demo?

....GCMarshall, an in-home demo with no strings would be great....an in-store demo would probably be equally as effective....and, if you're thinking $2000 range anyway, ya' might consider gettin' in on this Earthquake deal....specs don't lie, and that review by Clint Walker was real....I'm excited over mine coming....hope it ends up saving me K2 purchases....suspect it will....GC, you ain't interested in a 40 pound transformer to feed five, brand new, with XLR inputs, listing at 5, going for 2, cleaner than 20 Mule-Team Borax?.....huh?.....what's got into this younger crowd?....dumber than Oklahoma dirt....

 

[zumbo]

I doubt it will be worth that much. I have a Yamaha 1400. All my speakers are 4ohm. My receiver was working hard driving all my speakers, but it was doing a good job. I wanted to save the life of my receiver, so I added an Adcom five channel amp. I can notice a difference at very high volumes in the detail of the sound and the control over the speaker. It IS NOT louder, just cleaner at high levels. I am the only one in the house who enjoys it that loud. At normal levels, there is NO difference what so ever. The main thing for me is that I am saving my receiver, and possibly my speakers.

 

[furrycute]

You wont notice a $2,000 improvement in sound. Most likely you'll notice a $200 improvement in sound.

Plus your speakers have an efficiency of 93dB, they are pretty darned efficient, almost anything can drive them effortlessly.

You'll only notice a noticeable improvement if you have 4 ohm and inefficient speakers. When I switched from an integrated amp to a pre/pro setup, I noticed an immediate improvement in bass response. But again my speakers are pretty hard to drive, and are rated at 6 ohms, and have an efficiency of 86 dB.

 

[gcmarshall]

guys-

thanks for the quick replies. i appreciate the input as i ponder this idea.

i suspected that the main differences with a dedicated amp would be more clarity and punch at all volume levels, with especially noticeable clarity and detail at higher volumes. i guess i probably need to do a demo (in-home if possible - and it should be) to see what a separate amp brings to the table.

i know nobody can answer this question for my specific situation. but, it is helpful to know other people's experiences and your experience with your 5 channel amp is excellent feedback.

 

[mulester7]

i just would hate the result being that i spend $2,000 and end up with a nickel's worth of difference or a nickel's worth of improvement over my yamaha's amps

.....GC, any receiver's amp sections are in diapers and barely walkin'....just because the music can get LOUD means nothing....you might hold off on purchasing anything a week or 10 and let me report on this Earthquake Cinenova Grande 5....who knows?, I may add a 3 before this thing is over....there's your quickest horsepower for the front three channels....and, the biggest horsepower, is the Grande 7, that has a larger transformer by a few pounds, 4 KVA, and is rms rated 328 watts for 7 channels at 8 ohms....no deal to be had on the 7 though, think 3 and 5, and let's cripple through with the forty pound 3.6 KVA and 300, haha....I truly hope to be thrilled with the 5......

 

[mulester7]

.....and, GCMarshall, the other guys are probably right-on if they added relatively small watts....it got cleaner to them, because a dedicated amplifier got in the mix, but it didn't ever come alive with authority, or both those guys who I feel are sharp, would have noticed....and, you should notice a change in the voice, a change in the authority, and notice increased cleanness, even if your speakers are 102 db efficient....don't want no cap pistols in my system, thanks.....

 

[Nick250]

guys-

i appreciate the input as i ponder this idea.

i suspected that the main differences with a dedicated amp would be more clarity and punch at all volume levels, with especially noticeable clarity and detail at higher volumes. i guess i probably need to do a demo (in-home if possible - and it should be) to see what a separate amp brings to the table.

A dedicated amp is not going to add clarity, detail and punch at all volume levels. Your receiver/amp idles along useing 3 or 4 watts and the sound coming from your speakers is going to sound just the same from a 50 watt amp as it will from a 1000 watt amp. You are barking up the wrong tree on this. Buy what you will, but be realistic with yourself about what really impacts the sound in your listening room.

 

[gcmarshall]

and, what does really impact the sound in my listening room?

 

[Doug917]

Acoustic treatment and proper speaker placement.

 

[mulester7]

Acoustic treatment and proper speaker placement.

.....Definite factors....done for the room, not the system.....

 

[Doug917]

gcmarshall,

I can tell you, I was in a very similar spot to yours. I have the 2500, until I ebay it in a few days, and upgraded from the internal amps to a pair of the Outlaw 755 amps (200W x 5). I noticed a big difference at all listening levels in the bass region. In the highs there was a small difference at lower volumes, but louder volumes were much less harsh. Midrange had the least noticable affect. Now, I'm using the amps with the Outlaw 990 pre/pro and that is another huge difference in sound quality, moreso than adding the amps to the 2500. My next purchase will be acoustic treatments for my room.

 

[furrycute]

I used to own an Accuphase integrated amp with analog meters on the front. Most of the time the meter needle hovers around 1 watt. The needle only go up substantially if there is heavy bass sound involved. So that's where a more powerful amp excels, it can handle those bass frequencies much more easily compared to less powerful amps.

And I agree with room treatment. You will notice substantial improvement in your sound after treatment.

 

[furrycute]

I don't believe all the hype surrounding internet only brands. I remember reading in the past the Outlaw pre/pro had subsantial audible noise even when idle. That's not a sign of good design.

Plus, didn't that company almost go bankrupt? There were concerns a while back that those Outlaw processors weren't going to get those promised firmware upgrades.

 

[Doug917]

furrycute,

I used to think the 2500 with the Outlaw amps was dead quiet. If I would turn the volume past about -10 (with a paused source) I would start to get hiss with the 2500. With the 990 it is truely dead silent cranked all the way up. I know you've stated in other threads you're not fond of Internet brands. Where else can you get a pre/pro with oustanding 2-channel performance, movie performance, and a 5-year warranty for ~$1000? I hadn't heard anything about them about going bankrupt. I know they have put out firmware upgrades for their product lines and I think they are better as far as customer service than my local dealers.

I am also trying out a Model 970 pre/pro from them and am not impressed with its performance to this point. There may be a problem with the unit I received. I will let you know how it turns out. I'm not stuck on Outlaw, had I just been deciding between the Yamaha 2500 and the 970, the 2500 would have stayed in my system.

 

[mtrycrafts]

and, what does really impact the sound in my listening room?

I completely agree with Nick250.
What impacts your sound that you hear the utmost are the speakers, your room's acoustics and the software quality.

 

[tdeluce]

.....GC, any receiver's amp sections are in diapers and barely walkin'....just because the music can get LOUD means nothing....you might hold off on purchasing anything a week or 10 and let me report on this Earthquake Cinenova Grande 5....who knows?, I may add a 3 before this thing is over....there's your quickest horsepower for the front three channels....and, the biggest horsepower, is the Grande 7, that has a larger transformer by a few pounds, 4 KVA, and is rms rated 328 watts for 7 channels at 8 ohms....no deal to be had on the 7 though, think 3 and 5, and let's cripple through with the forty pound 3.6 KVA and 300, haha....I truly hope to be thrilled with the 5......

If you are going to use both a 3 and a 5, I would put them on separate circuits all by themselves...

 

[mulester7]

.....I've found big watts to tame a few room issues, actually, but maybe it's just the authority has made me not notice the room flaw, I don't know, didnt' have a blindfold on....another plus for watts, your cockroaches will pack up and move......

 

[rollinrocker]

Marshall, if you listen to a lot of music i would go with the amp. If you have a dealer that understands your trepidation about the purchase he may let you take amp home for a trial run, knowing that once you hear diff it can make, he's going to sell you that amp!




by the way, did you get my pm?

 

[gcmarshall]

rollinrocker,

yes, got your PM. thank you for writing.

my dealer will loan me a RMB-1095. he does not have a RB-1080 to loan out. i did not want to take advantage of his generous loan offer until i felt more certain about my desire to purchase. that is what brought me back to this forum.

anyway, to all of you -- thanks for such a thorough discussion on my thread. it helps to see all points of view. for those who suggested it, i do have a sub (in fact, thinking about adding a second).