Dedicated amp advice needed. Rotel RB1582 MK2 or the Cambridge Audio Azur 851W

[ciotime]

Hi...need some advice. I've been using the B&W DM 602 S3 in my dedicated HT room as my main front speakers. Setup is 7.2.4. Just using the Denon X3700H to power all the speakers. Plan on getting a 2 CH dedicated amp to power the 602's. I'm thinking about getting either the Rotel RB1582 MK2 or the Cambridge Audio Azur 851W. Someone said that it's overkill. Do you guys think so? I mean if I plan to upgrade my front's to bigger one's in the future at least I'm ready for it. Also which of the 2 amps would you recommend? Thanks.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hard to know other than you think you need a more powerful amp. What kind of distances from speaker are you and what are your spl requirements? In what way is the current one not performing?

Why would bigger speakers require more amp? It's usually the other way around, larger speakers tend to be more sensitive....Hoffman's Iron Law and all....

These two seem pricey for 2ch amps of 200 wpc in any case....I'd get a pair of Outlaw 2220s over either of these. Or are you in the UK?

 

[ryanosaur]

I'd get a pair of Outlaw 2220s over either of these

#boom-pow!

 

[mazersteven]

The Denon 3700 is all you need to drive the B&W DM602's

Even the 2220's are Overkill

 

[ciotime]

Hard to know other than you think you need a more powerful amp. What kind of distances from speaker are you and what are your spl requirements? In what way is the current one not performing?

Why would bigger speakers require more amp? It's usually the other way around, larger speakers tend to be more sensitive....Hoffman's Iron Law and all....

These two seem pricey for 2ch amps of 200 wpc in any case....I'd get a pair of Outlaw 2220s over either of these. Or are you in the UK?

I'm based in Asia...

 

[ciotime]

The Denon 3700 is all you need to drive the B&W DM602's

Even the 2220's are Overkill

The 602 Sensitivity rating is 90dB/2.83V/m...I've read that it's best to use external amps to power the front mains so as not to overtax the AVR.

 

[mazersteven]

The 602 Sensitivity rating is 90dB/2.83V/m...I've read that it's best to use external amps to power the front mains so as not to overtax the AVR.

I know what the Sensitivity of those speakers is. Now you've read its best to use the 3700's internal amps that they will Not overtax the AVR.

What you read you misinterpreted or where just given Bad Advice

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm based in Asia...

Then yes Outlaw isn't much of a choice for you, I think, altho they're made there, don't think they sell them there. Not sure what your choices are, but if that's the best you can do either is fine if you don't mind the cost but I'd look for a better deal in a pro amp unless the amp aesthetic is meaningful to you. Looking at this review they should be driven well enough by your avr unless you just have to have that extra 3dB....but as to taking a load off, sure, but how useful still depends how loud and at what distance you listen....

 

[lovinthehd]

The 602 Sensitivity rating is 90dB/2.83V/m...I've read that it's best to use external amps to power the front mains so as not to overtax the AVR.

Altho in that review I linked, more like 87dB.....

 

[ciotime]

Then yes Outlaw isn't much of a choice for you, I think, altho they're made there, don't think they sell them there. Not sure what your choices are, but if that's the best you can do either is fine if you don't mind the cost but I'd look for a better deal in a pro amp unless the amp aesthetic is meaningful to you. Looking at this review they should be driven well enough by your avr unless you just have to have that extra 3dB....but as to taking a load off, sure, but how useful still depends how loud and at what distance you listen....

My room is about 13X20X8 and my MLP is about 14 feet from the front speakers. Room is mainly for movies not music.

 

[lovinthehd]

My room is about 13X20X8 and my MLP is about 14 feet from the front speakers. Room is mainly for movies not music.

How loud? Reference levels or ? (If calibrated on your avr, what's the volume reading you listen at?)

 

[ciotime]

I do have plans on getting either the Wharfedale Evo 4.4 or the DALI Oberon 5. Although I am a bit hesitant on letting go of the 602s since they still are in great condition and one is hard pressed to find huge bookshelf's with 7" woofers like these nowadays.

 

[lovinthehd]

What subs are you using?

 

[ciotime]

What subs are you using?

2 SVS PB 1000

 

[ciotime]

These are the 602 S3 taken from another post showing it's size compared to the DALI Oberon 5. Show's how huge the B&W's are.

 

[mazersteven]

Wharfedale Evo 4.4 or the DALI Oberon 5.

And the Denon 3700 will handle these without issue

 

[ciotime]

And the Denon 3700 will handle these without issue

Thanks for the advice. You really think I'm fine just using the internal amps of the Denon? Almost all the advice I get in a home theatre setup always recommend separates or at least use external amps for the front soundstage.

 

[ciotime]

Below is a quote taken from another forum with a similar question to mine.

" given that the majority of the sound comes from the front stage in most HT applications. a decent 2 or 3 channel for the front three speakers would be an advantage over the internal amps . . . . as well as taking a lot of load off the internal amps in the AVR which will make it easier for it to drive the other channels.

Take into account the following. The maximum capacity of the denon is 710W and at say 70% efficiency . . .thats about 500W across 9 channels which equates to just over 50W per channel . . . . all channels driven. Not going to matter so much for a standard 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack as the rears etc are prescence speakers which dont have a high level of use all the time. For atmos however, as it uses positional audio, the full set of speakers are used alot more so you will begin to encounter the limitations of the AVR.

Having a 2 channel poweramp for your mains brings you up to about 70W for the others and a 3 channel, a bit over 80w, while also giving you a more powerful front stage for when you do want to listen to music. "

 

[mazersteven]

Thanks for the advice. You really think I'm fine just using the internal amps of the Denon? Almost all the advice I get in a home theatre setup always recommend separates or at least use external amps for the front soundstage.

The Denon 3700 is one of the best receivers on the market with a very Strong and Stable amp section.
Based on the specs of the 3 speakers you've listed and the size of the room. IMO the 3700 will have no issues. Keep it ventilated and it will perform.

 

[lovinthehd]

Below is a quote taken from another forum with a similar question to mine.

" given that the majority of the sound comes from the front stage in most HT applications. a decent 2 or 3 channel for the front three speakers would be an advantage over the internal amps . . . . as well as taking a lot of load off the internal amps in the AVR which will make it easier for it to drive the other channels.

Take into account the following. The maximum capacity of the denon is 710W and at say 70% efficiency . . .thats about 500W across 9 channels which equates to just over 50W per channel . . . . all channels driven. Not going to matter so much for a standard 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack as the rears etc are prescence speakers which dont have a high level of use all the time. For atmos however, as it uses positional audio, the full set of speakers are used alot more so you will begin to encounter the limitations of the AVR.

Having a 2 channel poweramp for your mains brings you up to about 70W for the others and a 3 channel, a bit over 80w, while also giving you a more powerful front stage for when you do want to listen to music. "

I suspect this person looked in the manual and misinterpreted the meaning of the power supply spec (been wanting to link that ) Averaging power levels like he's doing....meh.....I'd tend to ignore this person from now on myself.

Try this too https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3700h-avr-review.15031/

The avr can do quite well....again, depending on your listening levels. If you want reference levels at 14 ft then perhaps a power amp would be in order.....at -10 from reference, perhaps not.

Then again sometimes you gotta scratch that amp itch....but I'd amplify the whole front end myself if going to that expense.