Decisions, decisions...

[Hi Ho]

I have been a member of this forum for a while and I'm sure many of you have seen me both praising and complaining about my system. An upgrade is imminent and I am trying to choose the best upgrade path.

Here is my system as it exists today:

Panasonic SA-HE100 - receiver
Advent Smaller Loudspeakers (1977) - front mains
Polk CS1 - center
Realistic Minimus-7 (RadioShack) - surrounds
DIY subwoofer (AscendantAudio Atlas 12", PE 250w plate amp)
Sanyo 27" standard definition CRT TV

This system is anything but matched. Obviously the newer Polk center speaker is not going to match the Advents. The same goes for the surrounds. It doesn't sound terrible, however, and I'd say it certainly sounds better than any HTiB system I've heard.

It could be so much better though. Other than the mismatched speakers, a major problem is the lack of bass management on my receiver. As I have explained more than once on this forum, the crossover settings bottom out at 100hz while the subwoofer frequency response tops out at around 85hz, creating a hole in the frequency response. The receiver also does not have the power to do the inefficient 4 OHM Advent speakers justice.

Here is the situation. I have been fixing up a truck bed camper to sell that someone gave to me. For about two years, I have really wanted to buy a projector. When I first started researching them, the Panasonic AE500 was the best budget model. Now it's the AE700 and Sanyo Z3. Both can be purchased for about $1,300. I had been planning to use the money from the camper to purchase the projector. Lately, however, I have been reconsidering.

My living room is the only place I could put the projector, but with two 10x10 foot windows and white ceilings/walls, it is probably the worst of conditions. I am beginning to think that a better investment would be a new receiver and a matched set of speakers.

I have my eye on the Yamaha RX-V2600 because it would be fairly future-proof and has all of the connections/features I would need for years along with preouts for external amps (my current receiver does not have these). The new Arbiter TM speaker kits from AscendantAudio have really caught my eye as well. I couldn't be happier with my Atlas 12" subwoofer and I trust that Chad, the founder of AscendantAudio, knows what he is doing and offers nothing but a quality product. I love building things too.

So, would the speakers/receiver upgrade best upgrade path? I figure it would be best to wait on a projector until I have a dedicated home theater in my own house (I'm 18 and in high school ). The Sanyo TV has an excellent picture but I can't help but think about how cool it would be watching movies on a 100 inch screen. Then again, having a properly matched and set up sound system could have an equally noticable impact.

 

[Leprkon]

I would recommend you sink all your money into buying good speakers now. There are no revolutions or format wars going on in speakers, and what you buy now will be good for the next twenty years.

The current wave of receivers, if that is what you really want, will go down in price probably June or July (maybe sooner, since Yamaha is already starting to come out with the 59xx in their HTR series). The next wave will undoubtedly have several HDMI inputs instead of two, and should have much better internal upscaling.

IN a year or so, when you recover from this buy, the market should be more settled and you will be better prepared to look for an HD/BluRay/DVD player that is unbelievable and a projector that will give you 1080P.

Blue Ray / HDDVD is a mess. Waiting can only make things better.

The display people in general are teasing us with 1080p. The know they can show it, but they don't know how it will be fed to the display. Until that settles out, you will be tempted to buy again next year what you bought this time around.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I agree with the speaker line of thinking. Find the speakers you really want. Build them or buy them and set you receiver speaker setting to large and adjust your sub to match. For the same money as the rx-v2600 I'm sure you could build five very nice matching speakers that could last many years. Then by the time you have the scratch for a receiver you should be able to get more for your money.

Remember it is better to get the speakers that have the sound you like first and then get the receiver/amp(s) with the power the speakers require and features you require after.

I would wait on a projector until you have a house. Whatever tv you get until then will look great in a bed room, den or family room.

SBF1

 

[Leprkon]

I would wait on a projector until you have a house. Whatever tv you get until then will look great in a bed room, den or family room.

SBF1

If you do have the TV itch really bad, this budget HDTV might help you get through it for now, then, like SB says, move it to the bedroom later.

http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_redesign/b2c/productdetail.do?productguid=41907ABB9A6F008D00000000828BD4724233A894D9DD02B100000000828BD443&productarea=41907ABB9A6F008D00000000828BD472&scenario=catalog&shop=OUTLET

 

[Hi Ho]

Thanks for the suggestions. What do you think about the Ascendant speakers? I doubt anyone here has had a chance to hear them but do you think they are any good?

Another possibility, is to buy/build those speakers (would double as my senior project) and either use the receiver I have or buy something like the Yamaha HTR-5860 and a decent RPTV. Any suggestions for a 50" RPTV $2,000 or under?

 

[Hi Ho]

No one else has any thoughts?

 

[j_garcia]

Well, the Ascendants use the Vifa ring radiator tweeter, so that is a good start. That is an excellent tweeter. They look quite plain though, but if they sound good....

Personally, I'd go with at least a new front three and possibly a receiver as well. Then you can upgrade the rears later and use whichever of the existing speakers as surrounds now. I think this would have the biggest impact on your sound.

 

[Hi Ho]

Looks don't make sound. I think they still look sharp though with the aluminum phase plugs. I think I will go for it and see how they turn out. A new receiver will come very soon as I an not happy with my current one.

Leprkon mentioned that the next wave of Yamaha receivers should "have much better internal scaling". I was under the impression that the 2600 already had excellent scaling abilities. I don't see myself using more than two HDMI connections any time soon so I don't think that would be a problem.

I think a system with matching Advents all around driven by good amps would sound amazing. I may do that some day if I can scroung up a few more like mine on Ebay. I will probably set mine up as a two channel system for now though. They really sound great with adequate amplification and they don't need a subwoofer at all for music.

 

[jcPanny]

Upgrade path

I would purchase the less expensive RX-V2500 ($5-600) and put the extra money towards speakers. Remember, the new Yamaha only supports HDMI v1.1 so it is not future proof and there are lots of posts of HDMI problems on this board.
A good set of speakers would be a better investment. For the price of the yamaha, you could get Axiom M60 floorstander and a VP150 center channel. It would be a great start to your HT.

 

[Hi Ho]

I really like building my own stuff. I know Axiom is very highly rated but I'd like to try my hand at building a set of speakers. Maybe the RX-V2500 would be the better deal. I could upgrade later when all the HDMI standards are set and the problems are weeded out.

 

[Buckle-meister]

No one else has any thoughts?

Yes, I've a suggestion. Now let's see if it falls upon deaf ears:

I really like building my own stuff.

My suggestion is to treat your room either through buying treatment, or by building your own which would fit in perfectly with the above quote.

Forget speakers. Whilst they may make more difference to audible sound than any other component, still they impact nowhere near as much as the room itself. Sort out your room and you'll hear your current speakers like you never could've imagined...

So do you go for the nice looking speakers which maybe better performing than your current speakers but which wont make anything like as much difference as room treatment will, or do you go for room treatment which isn't nearly as cool as a new pair of speakers, but which will deliver better sound than you've probably ever experianced in your life? If you're truly into audio, the decision is easy.

 

[Hi Ho]

... and I thank you for the suggestion. I don't want to sound like I'm not taking the advice given here. I really do appreciate it.

I would very much like to acoustically treat the room but the rest of the family will not go for it. Closing the blinds on the two huge (10'x10') windows helps a lot though.

I really like the sound of my current speakers but as I stated above, they don't match in any sense of the imagination. The Polk center speaker is extremely bright and somewhat silibant as opposed to the Advents which are balanced and smooth. The Advents also need substantial amplification, something which I am not sure many receivers can achieve to my satisfaction. My current one sure can't. That is not to mention the abysmal bass management on my current receiver. I don't care what speakers look like and I'm not building them for looks (just look at my sub with no veneer on it). I will most likely set the Advents up as a two channel system with a good amp because they don't need a sub at all for music.

Is it not best to have a matched set of speakers and a receiver with good bass management? I know the impact of a properly treated room is substantial and I will most certainly have one (a dedicated theater) when I have my own place. For now, I simply want the best system I can set up in my living room.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I don't want to sound like I'm not taking the advice given here. I really do appreciate it.

There's no need to apologise Hi Ho. It's just that it gets tiring when everybody freely admits that the room is the biggest contributer to sound quality, and then they go and recommend a new set of speakers. It also gets tiring telling people what'll let them obtain great sound and have it fall on deaf ears when supposedly they are after the best sound they can get. Oh well, it's like what they say; You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I would very much like to acoustically treat the room but the rest of the family will not go for it.

I understand. I appreciate that in many instances, other factors must be taken into consideration.

Is it not best to have a matched set of speakers and a receiver with good bass management?

So they say, but what good is even the best bass management when your room causes bass to be poorly defined?

 

[Hi Ho]

The bass in this room doesn't seem to be much of a problem. It isn't boomy and it sounds tight. I really should invest in an SPL meter so I can get some real measurements.

I wouldn't doubt that all of the windows and hard surfaces is helping exaggerate the highs and is probably the source of at least some of the silibance from the center speaker.

For now, I think I will go for the Ascendant speakers and a Yamah 2500. I can use the EQ feature in the Yamaha to help tame some of the room problems. Hopefully it won't be too long before I have a place to call my own and I can do whatever I want.

 

[Buckle-meister]

The bass in this room doesn't seem to be much of a problem...

That's what you think. Treat it, and you'll appreciate just how bad it really is.

 

[Hi Ho]

I know, but I can't miss what I haven't heard.

I actually had an idea a couple months ago to convert the attic over my dad's woodshop into a small theater with all the fixings. I then decided that by the time I got it finished I would be looking to move out.

 

[Sheep]

Not to sound like an Echo, but I would second the speakers part.

Speaker have made a big difference with me, and I have a concrete floor in my room.

SheepStar

 

[Hi Ho]

I just saw your thread about the new center speaker. It makes a difference having matched speakers doesn't it! That's what I'm looking forward too.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Not to sound like an Echo, but I would second the speakers part.

Speaker have made a big difference with me, and I have a concrete floor in my room.

SheepStar

An echo?

At Audioholics???

Quick someone fix it!!!

Now back to the many Sheepstar good or bad threads.

SBF1

 

[STRONGBADF1]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

Because if he does the mare will make him a gelding....


I think that and expense are the major problems other than new speakers are cooler to look at maybe. Most of the room treatments i have seen do not look nice to a non-audioholic in traditional rooms and let's face it most of us have a non-audioholic we live with. Some are more understanding than others. My wife is very understanding and does not mind big speakers and TVs but pannels are out of the question.

Now when I build MY semi-dedicated room in the basement I will put treatments where ever I want them.

Now as far as this thread is concerned a matched set of speakers that you can take from place to place is still my vote. The room can be done later instead of wasting more money on speakers.

SBF1


p.s. I agree and think alot of us need to re-prioritize.