Debating which amp to choose upgrading my current receiver

[Daniel_Elmaleh]

Hi everybody!

Could use your advise..

This is my current setup

Turntable: technics SL-Q3
Receiver: Rotel rx-850
Speakers: Tannoy Saturn S6

I use the system for music trough turntable/smart TV+DAC and video through smart TV.+DAC
I am very pleased with the system I have, however the absences of a remote control really bugs me...

My main concern is music, although it would be nice to upgrade to a 5.1 system (in the future) if it won't affect the stereo performance.

I have an option of buying on second hand : Nad c372 or a Yamaha RXV-677, both at the same price.
Obviously the Nad would be better for music, but the Yamaha will give future upgrade option for a 5.1 setup.
Will the Yamaha outperform my rotel? or any other AVR at that price rate for that matter?

Thanks,
Daniel

 

[Pogre]

I think you'll find that their "sound" is more alike than different. When you remove the dsp and play them in a pure direct mode they should both sound the same. If you plan to maybe eventually go to 5.1 the Yamaha should serve you just fine without any audible differences in sq over the N

A lot of us shop and buy gear at AC4L and have had good experiences. They have some heavily discounted previous year models that are like new (at least IME). What kind of budget are you looking at?

 

[Daniel_Elmaleh]

Hi, thanks for the quick reply!
Everywhere I look around the net people saying stereo amp outperform AVRs - therefore my concern. Or are you saying that with my set of Tannoy (mid-end ish speakers) I wouldn't feel a difference between the amps?

Regarding AC4L - forgot to mention I'm from Israel.. So might no be irrelevant for me.
Around here the price for electronics is much higher (could be twice comparing to the US),ergo I am looking in the second hand market. the equivalent currency would be around 600-700 USD (second hand)

edit: what did you mean by sq over the n? (sorry kind of new in the business)

 

[Pogre]

Hi, thanks for the quick reply!
Everywhere I look around the net people saying stereo amp outperform AVRs - therefore my concern. Or are you saying that with my set of Tannoy (mid-end ish speakers) I wouldn't feel a difference between the amps?

Regarding AC4L - forgot to mention I'm from Israel.. So might no be irrelevant for me.
Around here the price for electronics is much higher (could be twice comparing to the US), ergo I am looking in the second hand market. the equivalent currency would be around 600-700 USD (second hand)

A lot of people will tell you that, but in reality the goal for all of the best manufacturers is to have faithful audio reproduction. A receiver or amp that has a "different sound" is usually volume inequality, dsp or inferior product. I'm a music first guy so my system is set up around music enjoyment first and ht second. I'm using a receiver to send signal to my amplifier and if I do say so myself, sounds amazing.

I'm in the camp of, a well made amp or receiver should sound the same, all things being equal and operated within tolerances. Speakers are where it's at when you want to look for an audible sonic improvements.

 

[ryanosaur]

I've heard some Tannoys and really liked them. I don't know the models, I'm afraid.

Agree with Pogre here. You won't find Sound Quality in the electronics so much unless you are shifting from a very inexpensive unit to a mid-level and above... and even then, It might take a time difference of 10 yrs with technological upgrades to really make a significant difference in SQ.

I fully enjoy my surround setup and have no qualms recommending pursuing that if you are interested. I'm music first and listen to some 5-channel audio. Overall, maybe 90/95% Music to HT! I'm still going to install Atmos though.

I'd recommend making a list of your goals and options, and doing some research around that. look at you speakers and learn how much power you need to achieve the spl level you want to listen at. Audition some speakers for fun, just to hear how they sound compared to yours. Read some reviews to learn how those speakers are described... don't believe the review though! Rather use the reviews to help you form an opinion based on comparative listening and your own experience!
That, to me, is where this really starts to get fun. When you know the sound you like and can pursue those speakers and build a system around that!, that is when you are getting it!!!

 

[Daniel_Elmaleh]

I hear you guys.. I'm 90% music guy myself.
I am still somewhat baffled, why do you use a power amp if the differences between the power amp and the AVR are so marginal?

 

[ryanosaur]

For me, its SPL. My speakers are mid-80's on sensitivity. To clear Dynamic Peaks at Reference Level, I need about 250w. That might be for a split second and gone! Most of the time, I'm probably using less than 1w per channel. My AVR would likely poop out at about 100dB max if I were pushing all channels.
Was it worth $1500 to buy 5 Monoblocks from Outlaw, in order to have that headroom? *shrugs Do I regret is? NO!

Two things you could do: check out the Peak SPL Calculator. Also look at your speakers sensitivity and learn what you need to drive each to the level you want. (This is independant from what you likely need to have from an in-room perspective, but it's educational to see written out: basically you need to double the power to see +3dB in SPL.) I did this in excel for my own reference. Keep in mind that the distance for this is @ 1 meter using 85dB sensitivity. Finish out the series up to 512w for that, and then do it again for 92dB sesitivity. See the difference in power you need to supply to attain the SPL you want. @92dB sensitivity, you likely don't need an Amp at all beyond what's built into a good AVR!
1w = 85dB
2w = 88
4w = 91
8w = 94... etc.

 

[Pogre]

I hear you guys.. I'm 90% music guy myself.
I am still somewhat baffled, why do you use a power amp if the differences between the power amp and the AVR are so marginal?

Build quality (especially the higher end models),bragging rights, money to be made, speakers hard to drive, more headroom, large room, powering main speakers to take some heat (pun intended) off the receiver... there are times when a person might actually need one, but most of the time it's more a "want" (guilty) than need.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Everywhere I look around the net people saying stereo amp outperform AVRs

They don't outperform AVR unless your system needs the extra power.

But as already said, in this hobby it's not just about needs. It's often about desires.

So most of the time (like most people) you will be just fine with an AVR like the Yamaha 677.

 

[lovinthehd]

Most avrs do just fine in 2ch mode. I've got dedicated 2ch separates gear and didn't miss a beat when moving up to avrs. I've used power amps with my avr in the past but just am not listening as loudly these days and my avrs have sufficient power for my needs now so repurposed the amps. A glance at your speaker spec has them at nominal 6 ohms, 75 watts continuous power handling rating, and with reasonable sensitivity (90dB). AVRs are much easier to integrate a sub with, too, let alone the remote control thing....

 

[Daniel_Elmaleh]

Hi thanks for all the replies!

I am not concern about power whatsoever (rather the sound quality), my rotel rx-850 has only a 30 watt per channel and he is pushing the S6 without a problem, fact is the system limit is defined by my neighbors tolerance

I always thought AVRs has inferior sound quality (not power).
However, if your'e saying it's a safe choice these days, well, that makes me feel more confident going in that direction