Dacs

[surveyor]

I have been comparing the DACS in my Outlaw 990 AVP to the DACS in my Denon 2910 MDP.
I can't recognize any definitive audio quality diferences between the two.
Note:
Outlaw Audio 990 AVP
Digital to Analog: Analog Device AD1852 24-bit/192kHz
Analog to Digital: AKM AK5380
Digital Remastering Chip: Analog Device AD1896
Denon DVD-2910
24 bit Burr Brown, 192kHz DSD-1791 audio DACs
Am I supposed to hear a qualitative difference?

 

[OttoMatic]

Am I supposed to hear a qualitative difference?

Well, you may or may not. I would expect there to be a slight, but appreciable, difference between the two. Usually, it's very subtle unless something's wrong.

I did a simlar test with an Outlaw 990 against the Benchmark DAC-1. Since the DAC-1 has a variable output, I was able to level match its output to the natural output of the Outlaw. I could then instantly switch between sources. IIRC, I used "bypass" mode for the DAC-1's input and "normal" mode for the DAC process in the Outlaw. Both the Outlaw and the DAC-1 were fed by a Denon DVD-1910 player.

I do believe I heard a difference in bass and soundstaging, with a nod to the DAC-1. It wasn't a huge difference, but I could hear it. Unfortunately, I had to return the DAC-1 before being able to have my wife do the switching for me in an effort at a blind test.

One other note -- be careful when using "bypass" mode on the 990 when using a sub and your mains are set to "small". The 990 incorrectly implements some type of high-pass filter at about 100 Hz. This is not only audible, but measurable as well. If you set your mains to "large," bypass mode works fine. This applies to "bypass" mode in the analog world only; "bypass" in the digital domain is OK. Outlaw is working on it...

 

[surveyor]

I'll keep that in mind Otto.
Thanks,
Kelly
PS
Do you have a Outlaw 990 AVP?

Well, you may or may not. I would expect there to be a slight, but appreciable, difference between the two. Usually, it's very subtle unless something's wrong.

I did a simlar test with an Outlaw 990 against the Benchmark DAC-1. Since the DAC-1 has a variable output, I was able to level match its output to the natural output of the Outlaw. I could then instantly switch between sources. IIRC, I used "bypass" mode for the DAC-1's input and "normal" mode for the DAC process in the Outlaw. Both the Outlaw and the DAC-1 were fed by a Denon DVD-1910 player.

I do believe I heard a difference in bass and soundstaging, with a nod to the DAC-1. It wasn't a huge difference, but I could hear it. Unfortunately, I had to return the DAC-1 before being able to have my wife do the switching for me in an effort at a blind test.

One other note -- be careful when using "bypass" mode on the 990 when using a sub and your mains are set to "small". The 990 incorrectly implements some type of high-pass filter at about 100 Hz. This is not only audible, but measurable as well. If you set your mains to "large," bypass mode works fine. This applies to "bypass" mode in the analog world only; "bypass" in the digital domain is OK. Outlaw is working on it...

 

[OttoMatic]

Do you have a Outlaw 990 AVP?

Hi Kelly,

I had one for about a year and a half. I sold it recently and purchased the Cary Cinema 11 to replace it.

 

[surveyor]

Is the Cary Cinema 11 better at audio than the Outlaw 990?
Congratulations on the upgrade.
Beware it never ends!

Hi Kelly,

I had one for about a year and a half. I sold it recently and purchased the Cary Cinema 11 to replace it.

 

[OttoMatic]

Well, I really like the Cary for its simplicity -- it's audio only, with no video processing at all. The sound quality is superb, but it's always difficult to tell precise differences when they're not both hooked up for a close-to-real-time A/B comparison.

The 990 got under my skin for that "bypass" mode problem. Also, the 990 wouldn't allow me to control Zone 2 and then immediately control Zone 1, even though each zone has its own independent volume control buttons. It would stay in some "Zone 2" mode for about 5 seconds before reverting to "Zone 1" control. That was super annoying to me and my wife.

Anyway, they are both nice, and I would recommend either to anyone looking for a good preamp. You can't beat the 990 at $1k, and I didn't find anything else I liked better than the Cary for $2-3k.

 

[fmw]

I have been comparing the DACS in my Outlaw 990 AVP to the DACS in my Denon 2910 MDP.
I can't recognize any definitive audio quality diferences between the two.

I wouldn't expect any difference at all between them. This technology is now pretty mature. DAC's and ADC's are very accurate and virtually all of them should produce about the same results. What they do is pretty much mathematical.

Comparing them with a sighted test (one in which you know which unit you are hearing) would usually produce better sound from the one you think should sound better. In your case it seems like you have placebo effect well under control. You are able to listen to them subjectively and arrive at what is most likely the right conclusion. That's a good thing.

 

[surveyor]

Sounds like the Cary is a fine surround processor, enjoy!
Kelly

Well, I really like the Cary for its simplicity -- it's audio only, with no video processing at all. The sound quality is superb, but it's always difficult to tell precise differences when they're not both hooked up for a close-to-real-time A/B comparison.

The 990 got under my skin for that "bypass" mode problem. Also, the 990 wouldn't allow me to control Zone 2 and then immediately control Zone 1, even though each zone has its own independent volume control buttons. It would stay in some "Zone 2" mode for about 5 seconds before reverting to "Zone 1" control. That was super annoying to me and my wife.

Anyway, they are both nice, and I would recommend either to anyone looking for a good preamp. You can't beat the 990 at $1k, and I didn't find anything else I liked better than the Cary for $2-3k.