DA 5600ES time to upgrade?

[Timschepp]

I have a movie room with a Sony DA 5600ES and Difinitive Technology Pro Cinema 1000 6 speakers and sub. 90” HD (not UHD). Waiting for UHD 100” to come down in price.

My only complaint is that the Sony volume is slow, and to be honest most TV/movie viewing has very little sound from surround. Everything works but not that enveloped experience. It’s set up properly so no need to offer advice on that. I’d also like to ad a second sub.

I have a whole home Nuvo system so I don’t need streaming or multi zone.
I’m thinking of future proofing by getting 4K compatible. Maybe changing brands to get a better surround experience, and Atmos since my back surround are ceiling speakers and front are mounted high.

My question: is it worth the update now? If I spend $1500 or less, would I notice a difference? Any new technology make it worth the upgrade (outside of 4K ready) Any suggestions on what receivers to look at?

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd upgrade the speakers first, to me they're the glaring weak point. The electronics aren't going to make a big difference. Another sub might help.

PS Have you tried raising the surround trim levels?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

How big is your room?

 

[Timschepp]

20X20 room size. I don’t have a problem with the sound quality necessarily, but like I said the surround and back surround are mostly silent. Just wondering if my receiver is starting to get behind the times.

 

[KEW]

20X20 room size. I don’t have a problem with the sound quality necessarily, but like I said the surround and back surround are mostly silent. Just wondering if my receiver is starting to get behind the times.

I don't often hear much from the surrounds. I think this is the nature of typical HT content for surrounds.
There are probably some discs/movies that utilize the surrounds more than others, but I don't know which.
Does your AVR have a setup routine for making sure the levels and phases of all of your speakers are properly matched (and have you run it recently enough to include any changes in furnishings which might absorb/reflect sound)? If so, I don't think that would be the issue.

 

[lovinthehd]

20X20 room size. I don’t have a problem with the sound quality necessarily, but like I said the surround and back surround are mostly silent. Just wondering if my receiver is starting to get behind the times.

Doubt it's the receiver, but you don't mention much about what you did to set up your system either. It's more likely room/speakers for the most part. Surrounds can be quite subtle, depends on mix and whether movies/music, hard to know what your expectations are as well. Did you try upping the trim levels for the surrounds if that's what you want?

 

[Timschepp]

Set up is the typical mic calibration set up. I went through manually as well to see if it better matched my tastes. The Sony Es has a pretty intuitive set up proceedure that should keep everything in check.

So based on the questions/answers that I’m getting, the technology hasn’t drastically changed in the last 5 to 7 years, so it wouldn’t be worth investing in a replacement AVR at this point. Is that the general opinion?

 

[KEW]

My only complaint is that the Sony volume is slow, and to be honest most TV/movie viewing has very little sound from surround. Everything works but not that enveloped experience. It’s set up properly so no need to offer advice on that. I’d also like to ad a second sub.

I don't understand the bolded statement!

Sony AVR's don't get much love around here although it seems like the new models may be making a bit of a return. Last year's (released around August of 2016) Denon 4300 is the deal to get right now at $800. That is a heck of a discount for last years model!
https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX4300H-technology-featuring-Bluetooth/dp/B01KZRPNIQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1508114466&sr=1-3&keywords=denon+avr-x4300h
Here is a review with measurements of the previous years 4200:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench

Overall, I would expect speakers are a bigger factor in getting that "enveloped experience" you want.

 

[PENG]

Upgrading from something like the Sony STR-DA5600ES means it will in fact costs you $1,500 or more for an equivalent (power output and build quality) current D&M or Yamaha models. If you are so sure that you had it set up correctly, then may be the unit is defective. Wouldn't hurt to try doing a microprocessor factory reset though.

 

[PENG]

I don't understand the bolded statement!

Sony AVR's don't get much love around here although it seems like the new models may be making a bit of a return. Last year's (released around August of 2016) Denon 4300 is the deal to get right now at $800. That is a heck of a discount for last years model!
https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX4300H-technology-featuring-Bluetooth/dp/B01KZRPNIQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1508114466&sr=1-3&keywords=denon+avr-x4300h
Here is a review with measurements of the previous years 4200:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench

Overall, I would expect speakers are a bigger factor in getting that "enveloped experience" you want.

I think the 5600ES is a flagship or near flagship model, so he may not be happy with the X4000 series.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, the ES series is Sony's better stuff. FWIW I've had no issues with my old cheap 5.1 Sony avr, feature lacking yes, but no issues otherwise. Here's the AH preview http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/sony-str-da5600es

Do you have a 6.1 setup? That's 5.1 plus a single back surround? Do you have a Definitive Technology "sub"? I think speakers are your weak link.

If you want different surround capabilities, like Atmos or similar, or 4k video, then a newer avr might be an idea.

 

[KEW]

I think the 5600ES is a flagship or near flagship model, so he may not be happy with the X4000 series.

You may be right, but I was unimpressed by the following spec which I had read in the preview that Lovin linked:

130 watt x7 @ 8-ohms, 1kHz, .09% THD

I noticed that his speakers do get down to 4.5 Ohms:

Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.47 ohms at 302 Hz and a phase angle of –48.59 degrees at 134 Hz.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-procinema-1000-speaker-system-and-pioneer-elite-vsx-84txsi-av-receiv-0#hKI6gRzyWSYOpEBq.99

and the Sound & Vision review of the DA4600ES indicated:

This graph shows that the STR-DA4600ES’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 122.3 watts... Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 158.2 watts.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-str-da4600es-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures#mBbaGlOmfLOxJ6UH.99

which makes me think it may not have a very good power supply.

In contrast, for the Denon 4200, we have:

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Load 124.3 watts. Two Channels Continuously Driven, 4-Ohm Load 215.9. (both at 0.1% distortion.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench#ETLsQLFhlEWLcJKM.99

So, with two channels driven, the power only increases by ~28% going from 8 to 4 ohms on the Sony, while the Denon increases by ~75% for the same situation. Since he is driving 6 channels with the same speaker (so impedance/phase for all speakers drops at the same frequencies), it occurs that power might be an issue. Hopefully the 5600 is quite a bit better.

But certainly you are better qualfied to interpret that info than I!

Edit: the Sony does do much better at 1.0% distortion. I don't know what that means relative to running 6 channel and higher current.

 

[yepimonfire]

20X20 room size. I don’t have a problem with the sound quality necessarily, but like I said the surround and back surround are mostly silent. Just wondering if my receiver is starting to get behind the times.

You mention it’s calibrated correctly, but it can’t possibly be if you’re experiencing this. What is the placement of the surrounds? Have you manually set levels and distance using an spl meter and tape? I get a seamless, fully enveloping sound field from my system, and it has nothing to do with my receiver or speakers, but the fact that I set it up and calibrated it to meticulously. I set the levels with an spl meter, set the distance using a tape measure and double checked it using rews timing reference, and correctly measured out all of the necessary angle of placement, toe in and heights of the speakers, so that they are exact within half an inch. If you just plop speakers down in what “looks” like the right spot, it’s likely you’re off. Never trust auto calibration to get it right, always double check it. I’ve never had DCAC properly set anything either. Always cranks my sub up 10dB louder than it should be.

As for upgrades, the only reason to do so is for Atmos/4k compatibly, and even 4k I’d argue isn’t worth an upgrade by itself, and an hdmi signal can easily be split off into audio and video. Atmos is definitely worth it if you do it properly (dynamically capable height/overhead speakers placed in the correct position). It’s like going from Prologic to discrete 5.1.

While you could repurpose the surround back in ceilings for atmos, if they’re located behind you, you’d either need to add two more heights for the front top or move them to about 2’ in front of the seating position. How far are you from the back wall and do you have multiple rows? You might not even need rear surrounds. A 7.1.4 setup can get very pricey, as it generally involves going double or more on the price of an avr and adding external amplification, in addition to more speakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

You may be right, but I was unimpressed by the following spec which I had read in the preview that Lovin linked:

I noticed that his speakers do get down to 4.5 Ohms:

and the Sound & Vision review of the DA4600ES indicated:

which makes me think it may not have a very good power supply.

In contrast, for the Denon 4200, we have:

So, with two channels driven, the power only increases by ~28% going from 8 to 4 ohms on the Sony, while the Denon increases by ~75% for the same situation. Since he is driving 6 channels with the same speaker (so impedance/phase for all speakers drops at the same frequencies), it occurs that power might be an issue. Hopefully the 5600 is quite a bit better.

But certainly you are better qualfied to interpret that info than I!

Edit: the Sony does do much better at 1.0% distortion. I don't know what that means relative to running 6 channel and higher current.

The DA5600ES should be a little more powerful, but you are right, power output is not an issue here. The issue is about comparing a top or near top Sony model to a 3rd from the top Denon model, and it is not a practical issue at all. If the OP does not mind giving up the feeling of owning a top of the line model then the X4300H is a good one to "upgrade" to, for $800.