D12 vs S12 vs Dual AS-P400's

X

xxxxxx

Audiophyte
I would greatly appreciate any comments regarding the Dominator D12 vs the Mirage S12 vs dual Athena AS-P400's (my current subwoofers). The rest of my system consists of a Pioneer 1015 with Athena F1's, B1's and C1. I have a 18'x20' room with a 10' ceiling and my listening is probably 50/50 HT vs music. Nothing is actually set up yet and I have a D12 still sitting in the sealed shipping box from AudioAdvisors that I got for $550 that I'm considering returning. I got the Athena subs for a steal of a price from Best Buy last summer for $225 for both (brand new) including four year extended warranties on both. I assume that I can still get an S12 for $400 from Vann's if they ever become available again. Given the great price I got on the Athena subs, I'd really appreciate some feedback on whether it would be worth the additional money to go with the S12 or the D12 (I don't have any space considerations so I don't have to have a compact sub). I also don't have any problem with co-locating the Athena subs so hopefully (since I don't know too much about this), gettting the Athena subs set up would be no more difficult than setting up the S12 or the D12.

Also, I assume that "co-locating" means sitting the two subs right next to each other rather than stacking them vertically/horizontally or in some other fashion?

THANKS.
 
A

AzN_plyR

Audioholic
either the S12 or D12 will blow the crap outta those athena's :)
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
AzN_plyR said:
either the S12 or D12 will blow the crap outta those athena's :)
In what sense? The AS-P400 is a decent sub, and I would rather have 2 of those then 1 S12 or D12 (depending on their performance in my room).

SheepStar
 
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AzN_plyR

Audioholic
Well, in most situations I read about 2 decent subs or one great sub... people almost always lean towards the 1 great sub... and besides, if the Mirage S12 is better/louder than the SVS PB10 in the 30+ HZ region...... I don't think 2 athena's will keep up! :p
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Well, in most situations I read about 2 decent subs or one great sub... people almost always lean towards the 1 great sub
Not here. Look it up.

and besides, if the Mirage S12 is better/louder than the SVS PB10 in the 30+ HZ region...... I don't think 2 athena's will keep up!
Still, you don't even know what the OP is looking for. He hasn't given enough information to make an informed opinion. You have to be very thorough before you spend someone else's money. ;)

SheepStar
 
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X

xxxxxx

Audiophyte
I thought that I provided a lot of information. What other information would I need to provide in order to get some help making this decision? The lowest frequency I'm concerned with hearing (feeling)? I guess, if I had to pick one, I'd go with 25 Hz.

I just want to know, if I walked into the described room (if any of my sub choices would not even be adequate for that size room, please let me know) and a movie was playing loudly (or music, since I'm split about 50/50 between the two), would I immediately notice a difference in the quality/impact of the low frequencies with the Mirage or the Dominator installed rather than the dual Athena subs co-located? If so, I'd set about selling my Athena subs and keeping my Dominator or buying a Mirage. If the difference would not be significant, I'd just keep what I have, given my budget constraints.

Thanks again for your time.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
You need to listen to it. You have the dominator, so listen to it. We can't tell you how it will sound between the subs.

SheepStar
 
A

AzN_plyR

Audioholic
Sheep said:
You need to listen to it. You have the dominator, so listen to it. We can't tell you how it will sound between the subs.

SheepStar

wait... he has the D12 already??? Then I agree with you..... he should test it himself....
 
X

xxxxxx

Audiophyte
I guess I left that part out. The room is not done being built yet (it's part of an addition). I bought the 1015 reciever and the Athena stuff last summer in preparation for the room because the prices were so ridiculously low at Best Buy. I got the Pioneer 1015, a pair of Athena F1's, a pair of B1's and a C1 center, plus the pair of Athena 400's, all brand new and with extended warranties on the receiver and subs for around $600. This was an absolute steal so I had to buy everything then. The only reason I ended up also purchasing the Dominator (a couple of weeks ago) was because it was almost half off the retail price and I thought that it MIGHT be a significant step up from the Athena subs. I knew that I had 30 days to return it (which will run out soon) so I decided to buy one before they were all gone (of course they've now re-appeared at Onecall for the same discounted price). My plan was to find out everything I could about the Dominator during the 30-day period and then make my decision whether to keep it or not (and, if so, sell my Athena subs). It was during this 30-day period that I also heard about the great price on Mirage which got me wondering about that one also.

Unfortunately, all the other equipment (besides the D-12) is in storage until the room is completed so I have no way to test the subwoofers against each other.

Sorry for all the confusion.
 
A

AzN_plyR

Audioholic
WOW 600 bucks for all that... Man what a steal..

How much would you get if you returned the Athena's? I am guessing not much since you got them at such a low price.... just for that reason.. I would say stick with the Athena's.... the older as-p400 are said to be lower and louder than the replaced as-p4000 too...
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I have the AS-P400 and it is a decent sub. The only problem (aside from extension, THD) is that it suffers from Port noise. The P4000 has dual ports, so it might breath better and handle lower Freq. better.

2 P400s would be nice. I would keep what you have. The S12 will be on sale again and the D12 should sell fast should you keep it past the 30 Day limit.

The D12 might handle the low end better then P400s but it will have less output.

SheepStar
 
X

xxxxxx

Audiophyte
AzN_plyR, Let me tell you, I did some SERIOUS work to get all that for that price. I visited five different Best Buys (NUMERSOUS times) in 3 states (Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania - luckily, due to me living in Delaware, the farthest trip was only about 25 miles). My trips involved MANY price adjustments and even involved a $150 gift card refund from Corporate for some shenanigans that my closest Best Buy was trying to get away with. All in all, it was definitely worth it (even though my wife wasn't too happy about the whole thing) and I definitely can't wait to get everything set up and start listening. I also have an old Hafler DH-200 amp that I may use to drive the F1's up front. I'll have to do some listening with and without it before I decide.

Yes, if I go with the D-12 or the S12, I would have to sell the dual subs (since I bought them last summer and it's too late to return them). Hopefully, I could get maybe $350 for the dual subs considering that they have extended warranties on them and that they are 400's instead of 4000's (I read the same thing you stated concerning the differences between the two). Selling them would be a hassle though which is why I started this whole thread.

Given what I paid, and what they are, would there be enough of a difference to justify the additional cost and the hassle of selling the dual subs? Sounds like your answer is no.


Sheep, thanks for the insight, especially the comment concerning output. That's something I was definitely wondering about. It also sounds like you may be saying that the D12 might be cleaner/tighter in the low end but with less output than dual 400s?


Thank you (both of you) for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it.
 
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Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Sheep, thanks for the insight, especially the comment concerning output. That's something I was definitely wondering about. It also sounds like you may be saying that the D12 might be cleaner/tighter in the low end but with less output than dual 400s?
Yes. The 400s will have more SPL, but the D12 is going to have more SPL down low. I got 1 400 down to around 25Hz before it quit, and there was significant port noise. The D12 should be able to get that low, without the noise. As far as how low it can go, I don't know. Never heard one.

J_Garcia heard one, give him a PM. I'm sure he'd be glad to answer.

SheepStar
 
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