Could it be the Denon?

[Wino]

I have a Denon AVR-2800 and have been really enjoying it for the last couple of years. However, I just moved into a new house and ran into a problem that I'm not sure if is being caused by my Denon or something else. I wired 5 sets of speakers throughout my home (for 5 separate rooms) in addition to the home theater set up that I have in my living room. I bought a monster cable 6 channel selector box to accomodate the additional speaker inputs for my 5 rooms. At first, everything was working fine. However yesterday I noticed that a couple of the speakers aren't working and in one of the rooms one of the speakers is coming in softly. At times they sound louder and they fluctuate as I listen to them. I made sure to select the button on the monster selector box (which states to press if listening to multiple speakers). I used 14 guage wire throughout my home.

I've done as much troubleshooting as I can think of. I tried getting another 6 channel selector box and I experienced the exact problems as before. Then I tried hooking the wire (which was connected to one of the speakers that won't work anymore) into another input, and still no sound. I even tried putting a new speaker in the faulty speakers place and again, no sound. I then tested the speaker with another receiver and it works fine. When I stick the wire directly into one of my receivers inputs (just to test), it causes my receiver to shut off. Therefore it seems that something has caused my wire to go bad. I didn't know that was possible (I'm new at this by the way).

So, what I'm wondering is 3 main things:

1. Is my Denon 5.1 (I believe 85 watts per channel) underpowered for what I'm trying to do - power 5 inputs in my living room and 5 sets of speakers with my channel selector? If so, how much power do I need. I was looking at a Sony and Yamaha receiver today that had 770 watts of total power (7.1 110 watts per channel) for $399. I need to keep my expenses down so I can't afford a bigger and better Denon (if I have to replace it).

2. Is my wire faulty? Do I need to replace it? That is going to stink because that wiring job I did two weeks ago was VERY tiresome. However, I'll do it again if need be.

3. The channel selector box states that the power handling is 120 watts per channel max (without protection engaged) and 50 watts with protection. Should I definitely use the protection? I did before and I still encountered this problem!

Basically what I'm looking to have answered is - What caused my problems and what should I do to prevent future problems.

 

[Shinerman]

Are you using all five rooms at the same time or even 2 or 3 rooms at the same time? If so, you might be asking way to much of your receiver. Typical A/V receivers are not built for this even with a switcher box. 85 watts per channel is not much to be split between all those speakers.

You might want to look into a whole house audio system with some type of server and with mutiple amps. This would work much better but it's a lot more money.

Again, A/V receivers all not made to power 5 different rooms at the same time. I have a Yamaha RX-V1400. It has 3 zones but I think it is only able to power two zones. (I think?) If I want to power the 3rd zone, I think I would have to add an amp.

Also, don't put much faith in a receiver's claim that it has 770watts of total power. Actual power is often much less than advertised. Your 85 watt Denon is probably a good bit less than that in reality.

Shinerman

 

[Wino]

What about what the speaker connector box states regarding max watt handling. It states that with protection, the max. power handling is 50 watts and without protection, the max. power handling is 120 watts. Is it very probable that what really happened is that I over powered the speaker connector box? I've been using it with the protection turned on, so that gives me 50 watts max power and I've been listening to my music fairly loud. I'm just wondering if this might be a possibility rather than my receiver not having enough power. And most of the time, I listen to 3 rooms at a time, occasionally 4.

Also, I was just wondering - how about this option (I'm not sure if this is crazy or flat out stupid, but let me throw it out there anyway): Instead of trying to power 5 sets of speakers from the one speaker box (which is hooked up to one channel from the receiver), what if I were to get another speaker box and hook it up to another channel from the receiver (perhaps the sub center rear which I don't use). Then I could have 2 sets going into one channel selector box (and into one receiver speaker input) and 3 sets going into the other channel selector box (and into a second receiver speaker input). My receiver can play 6 channel stereo so the speakers that are hooked up into the sub center rear channel, should play like any of the other speakers in this mode. Does this makes sense or sound like it might work? Am I missing something here?

 

[Shinerman]

Again, I think you are asking to much of your receiver by powering 4 different rooms with I am guessing at least two speakers in each minimum and a full HT speaker set up. That's a lot of speakers. You said that your receiver shuts off when plugging in a wire from one of the speakers but the same speaker works fine on another receiver. It sounds like you may have damaged your receiver. It sounds like it's going into protection mode. I highly doubt there is anything wrong with your speaker wire. Not much you can do to damage it unless you have a bad connection somewhere and even then that should not damage the wire. There also might be the issue of Phase. Do you have all the "positive" and "negatives" lined up properly starting at the receiver and going all the way to the speakers? With all those speakers it very possible you have something crossed. This could account for a decrease in volume and might cause the receiver to go into protection mode with 8 gazillion speakers hooked up to it.

Shinerman

 

[markw]

Those speaker boxes...

Are they designed to provide a constant impedance to the amplifier as speakers are switched in and out?

If not, then by adding and subtracting speakers to the circuit will most certainly affect the amplifier stage, and most likely not in a beneficial manner.

 

[Wino]

Shinerman - thanks for your suggestions, but a couple of clarifications. Perhaps I didn't explain clearly (as I've written about a lot of details that might get confused) but the wire didn't work no matter what receiver I tried connecting it into. It was the speaker that wasn't working, but when I used a different wire and plugged it into both of my receivers to test, it worked fine. Through this troubleshooting I eliminated the possibility of the speaker being faulty and the receiver not working correctly. It is definitely the wire, but what I'm wondering is what caused it so that I can prevent this from occurring in the future.

My receiver actually shows no signs of damage. Since unplugging the one bad wire, de-selecting the protection on the speaker box, everything is working fine again. One thing that I'm doing now is trying to reduce the amount of speakers that I'm playing at one time. This afternoon I had 3 rooms going and just my front speakers in my living room. I think I'll turn off all the speakers in the living room with the exception of the fronts when playing music in other rooms. I also have to now go back under the house as well as in the attic and re-wire to replace the faulty wire.

I hear what you are saying about overloading the receiver, but I'm still wondering if I didn't overload the speaker box since with protection (which is what I was using before) the max watt handling is 50 watts - which isn't a lot. So now I've decided to go without it so that the max watt handling is 120. I just hope that I don't risk damaging my receiver, but I probably am.

Oh well, I appreciate the feedback, but I still don't feel like I have a very good handle of the problem. I guess I'll just have to do some experimenting.

Mark -

Your question...
"Are they designed to provide a constant impedance to the amplifier as speakers are switched in and out"

I guess not, but I have no idea. I don't know of anything that I did to ensure that this is done. I thought that the speaker box was suppose to do this. Is there something that I can do that won't be very costly to do this?