M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
This is somewhat off topic, but it's interesting (for lack of a better word) that the antivaxxers don't like the mRNA vaccines because mRNA is allegedly too new, it wasn't fully tested, etc.. But, as far as I can tell, they also don't like the viral vector J&J vaccine.

Okay, so what about the two China vaccines, which are both inactivated vaccines that use a killed virus?

>>>Both the Chinese vaccines are inactivated vaccines, which use killed SARS-CoV-2 virus. Researchers say this type of vaccine seems to be less potent because it triggers an immune response against many viral proteins. By contrast, mRNA and viral-vector vaccines target the response to the spike protein, which is what the virus uses to enter human cells.<<<

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02796-w

It appears to me that the antivaxxers don't like the inactivated vaccines either:

>>>In an earlier hoax, an Indonesian TV report quoting a scientist was manipulated so captions had him saying "our people will be killed by Chinese vaccines" and that jabs "make the virus more savage" -- which was completely different from what he was saying. Before Facebook took it down, the post received 11,000 "likes" and was shared 182,000 times.<<<

 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Ninja
Unvaccinated Sarah Palin ate indoors at a New York establishment. Tested positive the next day. Then went back a day later and (at least) ate outside. What is wrong with these people?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
There is such a mix of factors it is hard to know exactly where we are.

Omicron is highly contagious, and the new B. 2A Omicron variant looks from early UK data that is can slightly outpace the B 1A. Omicron, which if it proves true is astonishing.

There is no evidence it is more or less severe. So that it why it is a variant of interest and not concern.

I think it is difficult to assess severity. Omicron still seems capable of being very lethal to the unvaccinated. Three doses of vaccine does seem highly protective against serious illness and death, although there is increased vaccine escape compared to other variants. However almost all individuals on vents in ICUs or dying are UNVACCINATED! I can not emphasize this more.

The above does provided rationale for both Pfizer and Moderna developing specific vaccines against Omicron.

This recent paper confirms that people who had the Modern vaccine compared to Pfizer do have a significantly lower risk of breakthrough infection.

I find recent data from the UK of concern, as it is diverging from the South African experience.

Here is recent UK case data. You will note that cases in the UK are plateauing at a higher rate than would be expected. Case rates in the South East of England are rising again. However people in hospital are declining, so most of these must be breakthrough cases. Deaths which are a late indicator are staying high. This leads me to suspect that Omicron is not so innocent in the unvaccinated, as the UK only record cases as Covid if within 28 days of a positive test. So most of those deaths will be Omicron now and not Delta.

The major issue of course is what does the future look like. Well probably not as good as we all hoped and I think many expect. I highly doubt it will be over after this first Omicron surge and I expect further surges. I expect more variants, but will they get a foothold? It is hard to conceive of a variant significantly more infectious than Omicron. So a new variant would find it hard to get a foothold without vaccine and past infection escape. This has to be a big concern, and could really up end everything.

I do anticipate more Omicron waves. It would be most unlikely this nightmare will be over after the current wave.

So what will life look like. Here is a recent JAMA opinion piece from eminent authors which all could benefit from reading.

My own personal view is that the situation will remain difficult in waves, until we have a successful universal SARS vaccine. We are probably at least 2 years away from this at the most optimistic.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Ninja
There is such a mix of factors it is hard to know exactly where we are.

Omicron is highly contagious, and the new B. 2A Omicron variant looks from early UK data that is can slightly outpace the B 1A. Omicron, which if it proves true is astonishing.

There is no evidence it is more or less severe. So that it why it is a variant of interest and not concern.

I think it is difficult to assess severity. Omicron still seems capable of being very lethal to the unvaccinated. Three doses of vaccine does seem highly protective against serious illness and death, although there is increased vaccine escape compared to other variants. However almost all individuals on vents in ICUs or dying are UNVACCINATED! I can not emphasize this more.

The above does provided rationale for both Pfizer and Moderna developing specific vaccines against Omicron.

This recent paper confirms that people who had the Modern vaccine compared to Pfizer do have a significantly lower risk of breakthrough infection.

I find recent data from the UK of concern, as it is diverging from the South African experience.

Here is recent UK case data. You will note that cases in the UK are plateauing at a higher rate than would be expected. Case rates in the South East of England are rising again. However people in hospital are declining, so most of these must be breakthrough cases. Deaths which are a late indicator are staying high. This leads me to suspect that Omicron is not so innocent in the unvaccinated, as the UK only record cases as Covid if within 28 days of a positive test. So most of those deaths will be Omicron now and not Delta.

The major issue of course is what does the future look like. Well probably not as good as we all hoped and I think many expect. I highly doubt it will be over after this first Omicron surge and I expect further surges. I expect more variants, but will they get a foothold? It is hard to conceive of a variant significantly more infectious than Omicron. So a new variant would find it hard to get a foothold without vaccine and past infection escape. This has to be a big concern, and could really up end everything.

I do anticipate more Omicron waves. It would be most unlikely this nightmare will be over after the current wave.

So what will life look like. Here is a recent JAMA opinion piece from eminent authors which all could benefit from reading.

My own personal view is that the situation will remain difficult in waves, until we have a successful universal SARS vaccine. We are probably at least 2 years away from this at the most optimistic.
Thanks.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Don't know if this has hit anyone's radar yet.
Businesses weigh options as convoy set to roll into Ottawa | CBC News
This clown convoy is converging on Ottawa from the eastern and western halves of the country. They want an end to vaccine mandates/isolation requirements for truckers crossing the CAN/US border. It has been pointed out many times that this policy applies in both countries, i.e. they must be vaccinated to enter the US, so the requirement to be vaccinated or face isolation on return to Canada is moot, as they would be denied entry into the US in the first place.

"We've long talked about trying to do something and wanting to do something, but there's so many times where you've just felt helpless and unable to do anything."
Of course you can do something dumba$$ - get friggin' vaccinated!:rolleyes:

Some pretty photos:
'Freedom Convoy' heading to Ottawa to protest trucker vaccine mandate | CBC
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Don't know if this has hit anyone's radar yet.
Businesses weigh options as convoy set to roll into Ottawa | CBC News
This clown convoy is converging on Ottawa from the eastern and western halves of the country. They want an end to vaccine mandates/isolation requirements for truckers crossing the CAN/US border. It has been pointed out many times that this policy applies in both countries, i.e. they must be vaccinated to enter the US, so the requirement to be vaccinated or face isolation on return to Canada is moot, as they would be denied entry into the US in the first place.


Of course you can do something dumba$$ - get friggin' vaccinated!:rolleyes:

Some pretty photos:
'Freedom Convoy' heading to Ottawa to protest trucker vaccine mandate | CBC
Those damn trucks better not have A6As in them....

 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Samurai
Something I've been going over and that is the numbers of people infected or have been. Well with all of these home test kits, how can a state or county publish new cases without even knowing the home test positive results. I know 15 people in my church that tested positive using home test kits, in the last 2 months, one was my daughter ( has all her vax's) who's a PA. these figures are not being counted in any county, state or CDC data base. So the numbers we see are actually so misleading on a state positivity rates its not even reliable any more. And then you have my State FL, who's numbers are so out of wack. They, the state, local and Federal covid "
keepers' have lost touch with positivity rates.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Something I've been going over and that is the numbers of people infected or have been. Well with all of these home test kits, how can a state or county publish new cases without even knowing the home test positive results. I know 15 people in my church that tested positive using home test kits, in the last 2 months, one was my daughter ( has all her vax's) who's a PA. these figures are not being counted in any county, state or CDC data base. So the numbers we see are actually so misleading on a state positivity rates its not even reliable any more. And then you have my State FL, who's numbers are so out of wack. They, the state, local and Federal covid "
keepers' have lost touch with positivity rates.
In our Quebec province, starting this week people who have positive results from a rapid home testing are able to report them to the province's medical board to aim for closer figures to the reality in new infections.

We have reached the peak for the Omicron variant attack. Hospitalization numbers are going down.
 
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pewternhrata

Audioholic Chief
Something I've been going over and that is the numbers of people infected or have been. Well with all of these home test kits, how can a state or county publish new cases without even knowing the home test positive results. I know 15 people in my church that tested positive using home test kits, in the last 2 months, one was my daughter ( has all her vax's) who's a PA. these figures are not being counted in any county, state or CDC data base. So the numbers we see are actually so misleading on a state positivity rates its not even reliable any more. And then you have my State FL, who's numbers are so out of wack. They, the state, local and Federal covid "
keepers' have lost touch with positivity rates.
At my job we test twice a week with an at home test, if that test is positive, we then get another test administered by a physician to verify. Curious if the at home is positive yet the verification test is negative; is that first test reported as positive to ramp up numbers? What if both are positive? Is that reported as 2 positive cases or just one? The stats are soo vague anymore and impossible to see any real data. I've heard that positive tests for vaccinated individuals are not being counted unless that individual is hospitalized. I really see it as vaxed vs non and swaying numbers to justify an argument.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Samurai
At my job we test twice a week with an at home test, if that test is positive, we then get another test administered by a physician to verify. Curious if the at home is positive yet the verification test is negative; is that first test reported as positive to ramp up numbers? What if both are positive? Is that reported as 2 positive cases or just one? The stats are soo vague anymore and impossible to see any real data. I've heard that positive tests for vaccinated individuals are not being counted unless that individual is hospitalized. I really see it as vaxed vs non and swaying numbers to justify an argument.
I don't see that way. The anti vax don't care either way and surley they are not going to take the time to report a positive case. The reporting in a lot of states to health depts, a lot of helath depts note, Home tests have always been challenging because there is no way for public health officials to verify that it was conducted correctly." Plus the FDA, "Consumers can but don’t have to report home tests, according to a spokesperson from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). And even when they do, the at-home results are not regularly added into health department case counts" . So its dam if you do report and dam if you don't as it might not even matter.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Unvaccinated Sarah Palin ate indoors at a New York establishment. Tested positive the next day. Then went back a day later and (at least) ate outside. What is wrong with these people?
You name it. Everything is wrong with them.

Is she still alive? We should hold a place open for her.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Ninja
Sometimes I see a graph that explains itself. Scroll down enough to see both panels.
View attachment 53417
You could show this chart to anti vaxers but they wouldn't believe it anyway. For the anti vaxers it's kind of like playing Russian roulette. Some get covid and get sick or die but for the ones who don't it reaffirms their belief that vaccines are worthless.
But thanks for the chart.
 
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