Epsonfan

Epsonfan

Audioholic
Come on man the so called adults are in charge now. More ppl died of C virus under Brandon.so far this yr.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm puzzled by the very currently very low rate of vaccination in the UK. It is less than half that of Canada or the US. And, the total number of people vaccinated is about 6% per capita lower than Canada. This, despite the very high infection rate. Even France has surpassed the UK in vaccinations. I just don't get it.
Everyone is just tired. Soon they will have all the rest they imagined. ;)
I am not tired.:D
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I didn't mean that I want to send our military into another endless war, or one that's quick and painful. I really would like to try having an American generation without a war- it hasn't happened since the founding of the country. However, the world CAN wage an economic war, of sorts- making them feel the pain of their actions is something I would agree to. Make them play by OUR (the World's) rules, not their own. They have long term goals and those don't include playing by the rules- that attitude needs to change.

OTOH, I just received this document form a friend and we were talking about some friends of him and his wife- one couple met when they were in the Military and now work in Bureau of Land Management and the US Forestry Department- they were both vaccinated, both contracted COVID, he had it twice after being vaccinated. Both are middle-aged and healthy, very active. I have seen many contradictions to what we're being told and some of the disputing info comes from the NIH, some from other agencies. One of the people this couple traveled with worked for the CDC and she told them that nothing from the CDC is accurate.

We, the public, only know what we believe from what we're told and what we find for ourselves. People in specialty medical fields have access to more in-depth info, but if that's the case, why are so many hesitant or completely resistant to being vaccinated?

I worked for someone who was a Sgt in Vietnam- he didn't talk much about it, but one thing that stood out- he absolutely refused to drive a green vehicle because he spent so much time in the jungles. He recently had a chance to go up in a Huey- he said he wished he hadn't- brought back too many bad memories. He's OK, other than major hearing loss, a scar in his back from a chunk of shrapnel and two knee replacements from jumping out of helicopters. He helps a lot of vets at the VA.

Another veteran I met while on a Grand Canyon rafting trip- most of us hiked into the canyon to start our section of the trip and after we had lunch, we were told that we would be waiting for some others who couldn't move as quickly. We waited, then we became impatient. Until we saw this couple, a man and his wife- she was fine, he was walking with two crutches. This is a 9.5 mile hike, one mile vertical- it took the rest of us anywhere from 3.5-6 hours and it's a bitch. This couple started just after 4:30AM and it took until almost 3PM to reach the bottom. Oh, boy- did WE feel special. Like a special bunch of turds, for being so selfish that we thought we should move faster. Yeah, we were special, alright. Once we got a chance to talk with them, we found out that until two years prior, he had been bedridden because of his knees (Airborne, but I don't remember which Division or Unit) and his goal was to go on this trip, top see if he could get through it. He was in serious pain at the end of every day, but he continued. Another part of his goal was to go back to the VA and tell some of the others that it was definitely possible for them to make the trip, too. I have a ton of respect for them.

Something to read-

Yeah I see where your coming from trying to stick it to them economically but how do we do that with the economy already taking so many hits right now? I just feel and hey I don't know I'm no economics genius but the timing doesn't feel right you know what I mean?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
It's not as some people like to say that easy to just write them off the unvaccinated as stupid or ignorant as some people would like to.

The research shows a lot of reasons why some groups are resistant to vaccines. Not all of there reasons or feelings are invalid. Just one example minorities are a lot more likely to not be vaccinated. A lot of them don't trust authority or the government. Honestly can you blame them?

Military some are reluctant. I work in psych nursing with the military. Some of them have had bad experiences with bad commands. They don't trust the government always. Can I blame them?

There's a ton of factors some single mothers are worried of missing work or watching there kids if they have a tough time with the 2nd dose

I mean there are those nut jobs out there that think it's a tracking device or a government conspiracy but the research shows some parts of the population do have some thoughts and concerns that could be addressed.

There's a ton of reasons but I feel going over them all would derail the thread

What I feel it boils down to is we're really lacking any empathy in society these days. And that goes both ways. And that goes just as much with the uncooperative on vaccines and social distancing and other measures. Both sides yell at each other and we just get nowhere

A lot of countries have now started taking an approach ( I'll see if I can link the article here in a minute ) of just accepting that Covid is not going anywhere and learning how to live with it. They encourage vaccination really encourage it but they don't demonize those who don't. They instead pool there resources into protecting the ones most vulnerable to Covid with vaccines and safety measures and find ways for everyone to get back on with life. Because it's not looking like it's going anywhere by this point. It just seems to those countries like a more practical and pragmatic way of approaching the situation. They feel too many more restrictions will now do more damage to society overall at this point then good.

I think in the States we still have this perception that we're going to beat this thing. And there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with trying to beat it as best we can and trying to vaccinate everyone

But I don't think we're ever going to get to 100% compliance and honestly I think Covid in one form or another is here to stay and sooner or later we will shift our focus on accepting this fact and figuring out the best way to move forward like other countries are doing right now.

Or we won't I mean this thing and the state of the world and especially the U.S. is so volatile its hard to predict where things will go

Nothing really surprises me anymore that's for dang sure
I wish it was that simple.

Living with Covid-19 is having a big human and economic impact.

The reason is that there are far more people immunocompromised that you would think even if you exclude age of 50, when age becomes a factor.
However when you factor in genetic disease, HIV, cancer and it treatment and the vast array of immune diseases requiring immunosuppressive therapy, then the numbers really add up. We now know that vaccination alone is not sufficient to protect these individuals. These cases were excluded from the trials, which explains why real world protection lags the trials.

There was a recent very complex paper in the Lancet looking at the issue on a world wide basis.

Below is the real impact of the data, and very much agrees, with previous estimates. You note that by 50 years of age one in 3 individuals is immune compromised.

This data does not surprise me at all.

Increased riskHigh risk
Number in millions (UI
*
)
Percentage (UI
*
)
Number per populationNumber in millions (UI
*
)
Percentage (UI
*
)
Number per population
Both sexes combined
All ages1746 (1032–2398)22% (15–28)1/4·5349 (186–787)4% (3–9)1/22·3
<20 years116 (50–167)4% (2–6)1/22·43 (1–7)0% (0–0)1/916·4
20–29 years134 (70–198)11% (7–15)1/8·916 (9–37)1% (1–3)1/73·6
30–39 years220 (122–320)19% (12–25)1/5·238 (20–87)3% (2–7)1/30·0
40–49 years279 (163–392)29% (19–36)1/3·550 (27–114)5% (3–11)1/19·2
50–54 years163 (98–225)37% (25–46)1/2·734 (18–76)8% (4–15)1/13·2
55–59 years171 (104–230)44% (30–54)1/2·341 (22–92)11% (6–21)1/9·5
60–64 years168 (104–224)52% (36–63)1/1·939 (21–87)12% (7–25)1/8·3
65–69 years161 (101–212)60% (42–71)1/1·741 (22–92)15% (9–31)1/6·6
≥70 years334 (219–429)73% (53–85)1/1·487 (47–196)19% (11–39)1/5·2
Females
All ages907 (538–1242)24% (16–29)1/4·3123 (66–278)3% (2–7)1/31·3
<20 years58 (26–83)5% (2–6)1/21·71 (0–2)0% (0–0)1/1390·6
20–29 years67 (35–99)12% (7–15)1/8·55 (3–12)1% (1–2)1/111·3
30–39 years111 (62–161)20% (12–26)1/5·112 (7–28)2% (1–5)1/45·1
40–49 years141 (82–198)29% (19–37)1/3·417 (9–38)3% (2–7)1/28·9
50–54 years82 (49–114)37% (25–46)1/2·711 (6–25)5% (3–10)1/19·8
55–59 years86 (52–116)44% (30–54)1/2·314 (7–31)7% (4–14)1/14·2
60–64 years86 (53–114)52% (36–63)1/1·913 (7–30)8% (5–17)1/12·3
65–69 years84 (53–111)60% (42–71)1/1·715 (8–33)10% (6–21)1/9·7
≥70 years191 (126–246)74% (54–86)1/1·435 (19–79)14% (8–28)1/7·4
Males
All ages838 (494–1156)21% (14–27)1/4·7225 (120–509)6% (3–12)1/17·4
<20 years58 (25–84)4% (2–6)1/23·12 (1–5)0% (0–0)1/694·6
20–29 years66 (34–99)11% (6–15)1/9·211 (6–25)2% (1–4)1/55·8
30–39 years109 (61–159)19% (12–25)1/5·426 (14–59)4% (3–9)1/22·6
40–49 years138 (81–194)28% (18–36)1/3·534 (18–77)7% (4–14)1/14·5
50–54 years81 (49–112)36% (25–46)1/2·722 (12–51)10% (6–21)1/9·9
55–59 years84 (52–114)44% (30–54)1/2·327 (14–61)14% (8–29)1/7·1
60–64 years82 (51–109)52% (36–63)1/1·925 (13–57)16% (10–33)1/6·2
65–69 years77 (49–101)60% (42–71)1/1·726 (14–59)21% (12–42)1/4·9
≥70 years143 (93–184)72% (53–85)1/1·452 (28–116)26% (16–54)1/3·8

This data, in my view makes the case for compulsory vaccination.

So the advice to people immunocompromised has an enormous economic impact.

People are wondering why people have not gone back to work, changed jobs or taken early retirement.

Preliminary UK government studies in the UK, that I think would certainly be applicable to the US, show that what I have published above, likely is the major reason for the labor shortage, and the supply chain problems. The immune compromised are in great degree following medical advice, and have modified their employment status.

So this is a problem that will be long term. So the bottom line is that lack of vaccination will not only result in excess death and morbidity, but will also hit us all in the pocket book, and cause severe disruption to the labor force and supply chains.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
But healthcare workers are working with the immune compromised. They should be mandated to get the vaccine. I sure wouldn't want to be in an ICU when my nurses or docs weren't vaccinated.
I mean a lot of us are I got vaccinated right away. And your right usually Healthcare workers just like military are pretty top on the list to get mandated on vaccines.

I know a lot of us got Covid so much I think some of it is just anger over burnout. A year ago they are all heroes they were asked to use PPE over and over due to shortages a lot of Healthcare workers got sick and were just asked to push through it.

My hospital was so short on staff because we all had it there was a point if you were working an infected unit and you were asymptomatic you were asked to come in you had to stay on that unit but they had no one to cover you.

I'm curious about my antibodies too now because my second dose I got pretty sick as well. I wouldn't be surprised if I caught the dang thing like multiple times too like the guy said 48 hours fever drenched in sweat then 3rd day all good like it never happened

Now it's like the script got flipped and you take this vaccine or your fired. From hero to zero just like that I think part of it is so much of us got so burnt and tired it's a frustration reaction for some of them man

I don't always know though I can't read there minds that's just part of what it looks like too me
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I wish it was that simple.

Living with Covid-19 is having a big human and economic impact.

The reason is that there are far more people immunocompromised that you would think even if you exclude age of 50, when age becomes a factor.
However when you factor in genetic disease, HIV, cancer and it treatment and the vast array of immune diseases requiring immunosuppressive therapy, then the numbers really add up. We now know that vaccination alone is not sufficient to protect these individuals. These cases were excluded from the trials, which explains why real world protection lags the trials.

There was a recent very complex paper in the Lancet looking at the issue on a world wide basis.

Below is the real impact of the data, and very much agrees, with previous estimates. You note that by 50 years of age one in 3 individuals is immune compromised.

This data does not surprise me at all.

Number in millions (UI
*
)
Percentage (UI
*
)
Number per populationNumber in millions (UI
*
)
Percentage (UI
*
)
Number per population
Increased riskHigh risk
Both sexes combined
All ages1746 (1032–2398)22% (15–28)1/4·5349 (186–787)4% (3–9)1/22·3
<20 years116 (50–167)4% (2–6)1/22·43 (1–7)0% (0–0)1/916·4
20–29 years134 (70–198)11% (7–15)1/8·916 (9–37)1% (1–3)1/73·6
30–39 years220 (122–320)19% (12–25)1/5·238 (20–87)3% (2–7)1/30·0
40–49 years279 (163–392)29% (19–36)1/3·550 (27–114)5% (3–11)1/19·2
50–54 years163 (98–225)37% (25–46)1/2·734 (18–76)8% (4–15)1/13·2
55–59 years171 (104–230)44% (30–54)1/2·341 (22–92)11% (6–21)1/9·5
60–64 years168 (104–224)52% (36–63)1/1·939 (21–87)12% (7–25)1/8·3
65–69 years161 (101–212)60% (42–71)1/1·741 (22–92)15% (9–31)1/6·6
≥70 years334 (219–429)73% (53–85)1/1·487 (47–196)19% (11–39)1/5·2
Females
All ages907 (538–1242)24% (16–29)1/4·3123 (66–278)3% (2–7)1/31·3
<20 years58 (26–83)5% (2–6)1/21·71 (0–2)0% (0–0)1/1390·6
20–29 years67 (35–99)12% (7–15)1/8·55 (3–12)1% (1–2)1/111·3
30–39 years111 (62–161)20% (12–26)1/5·112 (7–28)2% (1–5)1/45·1
40–49 years141 (82–198)29% (19–37)1/3·417 (9–38)3% (2–7)1/28·9
50–54 years82 (49–114)37% (25–46)1/2·711 (6–25)5% (3–10)1/19·8
55–59 years86 (52–116)44% (30–54)1/2·314 (7–31)7% (4–14)1/14·2
60–64 years86 (53–114)52% (36–63)1/1·913 (7–30)8% (5–17)1/12·3
65–69 years84 (53–111)60% (42–71)1/1·715 (8–33)10% (6–21)1/9·7
≥70 years191 (126–246)74% (54–86)1/1·435 (19–79)14% (8–28)1/7·4
Males
All ages838 (494–1156)21% (14–27)1/4·7225 (120–509)6% (3–12)1/17·4
<20 years58 (25–84)4% (2–6)1/23·12 (1–5)0% (0–0)1/694·6
20–29 years66 (34–99)11% (6–15)1/9·211 (6–25)2% (1–4)1/55·8
30–39 years109 (61–159)19% (12–25)1/5·426 (14–59)4% (3–9)1/22·6
40–49 years138 (81–194)28% (18–36)1/3·534 (18–77)7% (4–14)1/14·5
50–54 years81 (49–112)36% (25–46)1/2·722 (12–51)10% (6–21)1/9·9
55–59 years84 (52–114)44% (30–54)1/2·327 (14–61)14% (8–29)1/7·1
60–64 years82 (51–109)52% (36–63)1/1·925 (13–57)16% (10–33)1/6·2
65–69 years77 (49–101)60% (42–71)1/1·726 (14–59)21% (12–42)1/4·9
≥70 years143 (93–184)72% (53–85)1/1·452 (28–116)26% (16–54)1/3·8

This data, in my view makes the case for compulsory vaccination.

So the advice to people immunocompromised has an enormous economic impact.

People are wondering why people have not gone back to work, changed jobs or taken early retirement.

Preliminary UK government studies in the UK, that I think would certainly be applicable to the US, show that what I have published above, likely is the major reason for the labor shortage, and the supply chain problems. The immune compromised are in great degree following medical advice, and have modified their employment status.

So this is a problem that will be long term. So the bottom line is that lack of vaccination will not only result in excess death and morbidity, but will also hit us all in the pocket book, and cause severe disruption to the labor force and supply chains.
Yeah but like you mentioned above whether it's wise or not the course governments seem to be taking is economics and other factors over Covid. Not sure if I blame them completely I mean there are no easy solutions to this it seems like.

As some of the data suggests there's pretty high infection rates even with high vaccination numbers in some of these countries. I mean you can't keep stuff shut down forever it's 2 years in almost right. I think the constant strategy changes and just the fact this is really here for a long time has forced some of these countries to make some tough choices Public fatigue mental health economic realities do swing the other way as well

I'm not saying they're right I just don't think they have any easy choices I'm sure every nation is just trying to do the best they can with the reality they are in right now
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah I see where your coming from trying to stick it to them economically but how do we do that with the economy already taking so many hits right now? I just feel and hey I don't know I'm no economics genius but the timing doesn't feel right you know what I mean?
I can't think of a better time- their economy isn't doing great now, so they'll feel the pain more easily if a large number of countries act on their own behalf. I can't speak for the rest of the World, but the US did this to itself (well, Congress did it, really)- manufacturers needed to be able to compete with Asian competition and the only way to do that is to have them make the products, minimize fees & tariffs on goods from those countries and limit corporate taxation on US corporations selling products in the US. Without foreign manufacturing, US companies would never be able to compete on price and with half of US adults not paying income tax, it could be inferred that their spending would be severely curtailed if the price of goods went up (like they are, now). The high earners will always spend money but even they like a good price- their favorite word is 'MORE!' and they can get that when prices are lower.

One of the best things that would happen if manufacturing were to be more US-based is that more people would have jobs, if they choose to work.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
But healthcare workers are working with the immune compromised. They should be mandated to get the vaccine. I sure wouldn't want to be in an ICU when my nurses or docs weren't vaccinated.
Many health care workers haven't caught it, even though they weren't vaccinated. I think they could be useful and safe if they went through a regular decontamination process between patients but that would be expensive and waste time if the staff need to be on roller skates in order to get to all of the patients. Even worse is the fact that people are being suspended and some are leaving the professions.

Saw an old neighbor at the grocery store yesterday and he said he was vaccinated last August, infected in November. Didn't seem to work very well.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Saw an old neighbor at the grocery store yesterday and he said he was vaccinated last August, infected in November. Didn't seem to work very well.
The vaccine doesn't make you 100% immune. We've been over this. Again, and again.

The fact that he was able to give you that info means that it worked well enough to keep him alive.
 
R

RAMANY

Audiophyte
I'm puzzled by the very currently very low rate of vaccination in the UK. It is less than half that of Canada or the US. And, the total number of people vaccinated is about 6% per capita lower than Canada. This, despite the very high infection rate. Even France has surpassed the UK in vaccinations. I just don't get it.

The Biology Brain is a complete and reliable website that contains simple and understandable notes and references of all the faculties of Science. It aims to help students of all levels with a better understanding of Science. Here you can find major differences between bacteria and viruses with complete details.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
The vaccine doesn't make you 100% immune. We've been over this. Again, and again.

The fact that he was able to give you that info means that it worked well enough to keep him alive.
I know and it's almost impossible to know which variant he had. I also don't know if he went to the Dr when he was sick to be checked or tested.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm puzzled by the very currently very low rate of vaccination in the UK. It is less than half that of Canada or the US. And, the total number of people vaccinated is about 6% per capita lower than Canada. This, despite the very high infection rate. Even France has surpassed the UK in vaccinations. I just don't get it.
The UK vaccination rate is high. Among the eligible, the fully vaccinated are just below 80% and one shot just below 90%. That is a high rate.

Despite that they have a fifth wave starting, as of today, there are now 1000 hospital admissions per day, and deaths are slowing a slight rise.

This is very disconcerting news, and more information is required to understand what is going on. I just hope there is no nasty new variant. There is a lot of concern about this. Half the cases are unvaccinated children.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Samurai
Many health care workers haven't caught it, even though they weren't vaccinated. I think they could be useful and safe if they went through a regular decontamination process between patients but that would be expensive and waste time if the staff need to be on roller skates in order to get to all of the patients. Even worse is the fact that people are being suspended and some are leaving the professions.

Saw an old neighbor at the grocery store yesterday and he said he was vaccinated last August, infected in November. Didn't seem to work very well.
""Didn't seem to work very well.", well it appears he's alive. No vaccination is 100% of anything.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Ninja
Many health care workers haven't caught it, even though they weren't vaccinated. I think they could be useful and safe if they went through a regular decontamination process between patients but that would be expensive and waste time if the staff need to be on roller skates in order to get to all of the patients. Even worse is the fact that people are being suspended and some are leaving the professions.

Saw an old neighbor at the grocery store yesterday and he said he was vaccinated last August, infected in November. Didn't seem to work very well.
So would you want an unvaccinated nurse or doctor around say your 80 year old parents in an ICU? Or nursing home? Puhleeze. And don't get me started on the military. When I joined the USAF back in the day you just lined up and got your shots. No questions it was mandated. And now you have clowns like Tucker Carlson saying the the military shouldn't mandate this vaccine. Even though his own company mandates covid vaccines or daily testing? Un Fn Believable. The good news is that the new cases are going down significantly so maybe we will survive this in spite of ourselves. Sorry about the rant.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
He's just making a joke it's why he used the word Brandon it's a catch phrase thats gone viral it's all over YouTube and other media platforms
Good thing I don't follow any such platforms. I like to stay healthy, don't dabble in garbage out there. ;) :D
 
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