panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Did the family sue those chiros?
No idea, but I'm not sure what grounds they would have had. Being dumb and not going to a real doctor isn't really the chiropractor's fault. Yes, it is their fault for NOT recommending they go to a doctor, but they are just as much to blame for not getting a second opinion.

And, to be fair, the cancer just wasn't caught, the symptoms for my friend in particular were massive back pain. Well, he had cancer in his hip that was causing it. Nothing to think the chiropractor was wrong, but after a year of no results another opinion should have been gotten. It wasn't until it was too late. He wasn't even 19.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
This NPR item strikes me as being somewhat speculative (the fact that there are other explanations for apparent transmission by vaccinated individuals is not proof that the other explanations are correct). On the other hand, there does seem to be at least some evidence that the virus is different if it comes from a vaccinated person.

>>>Conventional wisdom says that if you're vaccinated and you get a breakthrough infection with the coronavirus, you can transmit that infection to someone else and make that person sick.

But new evidence suggests that even though that may happen on occasion, breakthrough infections might not represent the threat to others that scientists originally thought.

Ross Kedl, an immunologist at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, will point out to anyone who cares to listen that basic immunology suggests the virus of a vaccinated person who gets infected will be different from the virus of an infected unvaccinated person.

That's because vaccinated people have already made antibodies to the coronavirus. Even if those antibodies don't prevent infection, they still "should be coating that virus with antibody and therefore helping prevent excessive downstream transmission," Kedl says. And a virus coated with antibodies won't be as infectious as a virus not coated in antibodies. . . .

"If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells," Pepper [an immunologist at the University of Washington] says. "It's not known why. Is it covered with an antibody? Maybe. Has it been hit by some other kind of immune mediators, cytokines, things like that? Maybe. Nobody really knows. But the virus does seem to be less viable coming from a vaccinated person."

More studies are emerging that suggest there's something different about the virus coming from a vaccinated person, something that may help prevent transmission.

Whatever it is, the University of Colorado's Kedl says it's one more reason that getting vaccinated is a good idea.

"Because you're going to be even more protected yourself. And you're going to be better off protecting other people."<<<


 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This NPR item strikes me as being somewhat speculative (the fact that there are other explanations for apparent transmission by vaccinated individuals is not proof that the other explanations are correct). On the other hand, there does seem to be at least some evidence that the virus is different if it comes from a vaccinated person.
… …
"If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells," Pepper [an immunologist at the University of Washington] says. "It's not known why. Is it covered with an antibody? Maybe. Has it been hit by some other kind of immune mediators, cytokines, things like that? Maybe. Nobody really knows. But the virus does seem to be less viable coming from a vaccinated person."
… …
More studies are emerging that suggest there's something different about the virus coming from a vaccinated person, something that may help prevent transmission.
I saw that NPR article. It is speculation, but I'd call it educated speculation, a bit better than an educated guess. Both types virus assays used to estimate the amount of corona virus measure either the physical presence of virus RNA (PCR assay) or virus proteins (various antibody assays). They do not measure how infectious these virus particles might be.

The MDs interviewed in that NPR article could actually answer their question about how infectious the virus is when they come from vaccinated people, if they did plaque formation assays that compared virus obtained from vaccinated people vs. unvaccinated people. However, these assays are slow and expensive to do. It would require someone with a well funded research lab already set up to do these assays who could properly interpret the results.

I've talked about these different virus assays in the past on this thread. See Post #2497, especially the part about Plaque Formation Assays. which do measure virus infectiousness.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
This NPR item strikes me as being somewhat speculative (the fact that there are other explanations for apparent transmission by vaccinated individuals is not proof that the other explanations are correct). On the other hand, there does seem to be at least some evidence that the virus is different if it comes from a vaccinated person.

>>>Conventional wisdom says that if you're vaccinated and you get a breakthrough infection with the coronavirus, you can transmit that infection to someone else and make that person sick.

But new evidence suggests that even though that may happen on occasion, breakthrough infections might not represent the threat to others that scientists originally thought.

Ross Kedl, an immunologist at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, will point out to anyone who cares to listen that basic immunology suggests the virus of a vaccinated person who gets infected will be different from the virus of an infected unvaccinated person.

That's because vaccinated people have already made antibodies to the coronavirus. Even if those antibodies don't prevent infection, they still "should be coating that virus with antibody and therefore helping prevent excessive downstream transmission," Kedl says. And a virus coated with antibodies won't be as infectious as a virus not coated in antibodies. . . .

"If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells," Pepper [an immunologist at the University of Washington] says. "It's not known why. Is it covered with an antibody? Maybe. Has it been hit by some other kind of immune mediators, cytokines, things like that? Maybe. Nobody really knows. But the virus does seem to be less viable coming from a vaccinated person."

More studies are emerging that suggest there's something different about the virus coming from a vaccinated person, something that may help prevent transmission.

Whatever it is, the University of Colorado's Kedl says it's one more reason that getting vaccinated is a good idea.

"Because you're going to be even more protected yourself. And you're going to be better off protecting other people."<<<


This study from Israel suggests that the Pfizer vaccine is moderately to highly effective in reducing viral shedding by vaccinated subjects.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai

>>>Approximately 90,000 covid-19 deaths could have been avoided over four months of this year if more U.S. adults had chosen to be vaccinated, a new study finds, as the disease caused by the coronavirus became the second-leading cause of death in the United States.

The estimate from the Peterson Center on Healthcare and the Kaiser Family Foundation focused on deaths of U.S. adults from June 2021 — when the report says coronavirus vaccines became widely available to the general public — through September.

Around half of the deaths it deemed preventable occurred in September, due to the spread of the more contagious delta variant, the easing of social distancing rules, and the lower vaccination rate among younger adults, the study said. That month, covid-19 was the leading cause of death for adults between ages 35 and 54, superseding heart disease and cancer.

Coronavirus cases in the United States are falling again but the virus is not yet under “control,” Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, said Wednesday. More than 1,600 people died of covid-19 every day on average in the first week of October. The large majority of those deaths “continue to be preventable,” the study’s authors note.
<<<
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This study from Israel suggests that the Pfizer vaccine is moderately to highly effective in reducing viral shedding by vaccinated subjects.
Yes. That's a good assessment of how infectious the virus is, when it comes from vaccinated people – a good conclusion from existing clinical data. Corresponding data from scientific labs make similar suggestions. I think this is enough to believe that this suggestion will become an accepted fact. The only thing missing is to show that the clinical and scientific data meet in the middle.

I like to think of this as building a large bridge. It starts off with two unconnected structures on each side of a harbor crossing. It's enough to make one wonder how they can stand up, much less meet each other in the middle. But, the two sides eventually can meet, if all the previous design & engineering work was correctly done.
1634225271117.png
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord

>>>Approximately 90,000 covid-19 deaths could have been avoided over four months of this year if more U.S. adults had chosen to be vaccinated, a new study finds, as the disease caused by the coronavirus became the second-leading cause of death in the United States.

The estimate from the Peterson Center on Healthcare and the Kaiser Family Foundation focused on deaths of U.S. adults from June 2021 — when the report says coronavirus vaccines became widely available to the general public — through September.

Around half of the deaths it deemed preventable occurred in September, due to the spread of the more contagious delta variant, the easing of social distancing rules, and the lower vaccination rate among younger adults, the study said. That month, covid-19 was the leading cause of death for adults between ages 35 and 54, superseding heart disease and cancer.

Coronavirus cases in the United States are falling again but the virus is not yet under “control,” Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, said Wednesday. More than 1,600 people died of covid-19 every day on average in the first week of October. The large majority of those deaths “continue to be preventable,” the study’s authors note.
<<<
Although those 90,000 additional deaths may have been prevented, the cynic in me would say they are apparently not enough to convince the vaccine refusers to change their minds.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
Weird stuff........... buddy of mine came down with the 'Rona' in May of '20, recovered, got both shots this past spring(Pfizer) and just this week has Covid again, relatively mild symptoms...........
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Weird stuff........... buddy of mine came down with the 'Rona' in May of '20, recovered, got both shots this past spring(Pfizer) and just this week has Covid again, relatively mild symptoms...........
What has he been doing - licking every doorknob he encounters?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Although those 90,000 additional deaths may have been prevented, the cynic in me would say they are apparently not enough to convince the vaccine refusers to change their minds.
Of course not. Reminds you of people in another group? ;)
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Weird stuff........... buddy of mine came down with the 'Rona' in May of '20, recovered, got both shots this past spring(Pfizer) and just this week has Covid again, relatively mild symptoms...........
Might want to reconsider who he's hanging around. That's gotta suck getting it twice AFTER being vaccinated. Even mild symptoms are still something to deal with.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Samurai
My sister and brother in law just got done quarantine after catching covid while visiting their grandkids in Colorado. Both fully vaccinated so luckily they had fairly mild symptoms. So being vaccinated is no guarantee but does apparently help keep you out of the hospital.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
LOL, no he owns an auto body business so he deals with the public .......
Are you sure it wasn't this person?

>>>The first rule of coronavirus is: you do not lick toilet seats during coronavirus. TikTok star and Instagram model Ava Louise was flying to Miami when she did the unthinkable in today’s climate. In footage she first shared to her TikTok account on March 14, she generously licks the toilet seat, throwing up the peace sign before the footage ends.<<<


And . . . . drum roll . . .

>>>Influencer Who Participated in Toilet Licking Challenge Says He Tested Positive for Coronavirus<<<


 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
It looks like there has been some improvement in the percentage of eligible Americans that have been vaccinated. Of course, this percentage will rise somewhat as those who had been eligible for the vaccine die from COVID.

>>>White House COVID-19 response coordinator Jeff Zients told reporters that 77% of eligible Americans had received at least one shot of a vaccine. . . . "Since late July, when the president first announced vaccination requirements and called on organizations to follow his lead, the number of eligible Americans who are unvaccinated has decreased by about one third from 97 million down to 66 million individuals," Zients said.<<<

 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General

>>>Around half of the deaths it deemed preventable occurred in September, due to the spread of the more contagious delta variant, the easing of social distancing rules, and the lower vaccination rate among younger adults, the study said. That month, covid-19 was the leading cause of death for adults between ages 35 and 54, superseding heart disease and cancer.<<<
The fact that COVID was the leading cause of death for those 35-54 in September is shocking, but it is almost buried in this report.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic General
Although those 90,000 additional deaths may have been prevented, the cynic in me would say they are apparently not enough to convince the vaccine refusers to change their minds.
It's just a statistic until it hits their home.

In other news, I got my Pfizer booster this week. :cool:

In other other news, the FDA approved the Moderna booster today, so now my wife can get hers.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/fda-advisors-unanimously-greenlight-moderna-boosters-for-people-65-high-risk/
 
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