Considering a new AVR

[Swerd]

I may need to replace my aged AVR. Some of the controls appear to be failing. For example, when I watch a movie or TV, usually downloaded from Netflix, the volume control sometimes doesn’t work, either by remote or by directly rotating the volume knob. If I listen to music by CD, FM, or phonograph, the volume control does work. Lately, I noticed the On/Stand By switch is also getting a bit dodgy – when it works it requires pressing hard to switch it. Sometimes I can't get it to switch from On to Stand By. I assume all these operations are digitally controlled. My AVR also has a separate Off/Stand By switch, which is not digital. It works.

The AVR is a B&K AVR 507. I bought it used in 2009, and B&K is no longer in business. It’s worked very well for me, and it may be repairable, but this AVR is aging. It lacks any HDMI inputs or outputs. It has 7 channels, each rated at 125 or 150 watts. (I’ve always believed it was more likely an over-rated 125 wpc AVR.) But either way, it’s been a very good receiver.

I use it in combination with a separate 2-channel B&K EX 4420 amp, rated at 200 wpc at 8Ω, 350 at 4Ω. This amp drives my front left & right Salk Veracity ST speakers, while the AVR drives my Salk SongCenter speaker, and my NHT SuperZero rear left & right speakers. The front three speakers are 4Ω and about 88 dB sensitive, while the rear NHTs are 8Ω and less sensitive at 84-85 dB.

Any new AVR will be used similarly combined with this 2-channel amp. I do not want to spend the money for, nor do I have the room for a separate pre-amp processor plus 5 channels of amplification. I use all 5 channels for video and most often use 2 channels for music.

The 2-channel amp has an input sensitivity of 1.4 Volts.

I’ve started looking at some Denon AVRs, new and refurbished at A4L. I’m looking for HDMI functions, WiFi networking, multi-channel pre-outs (RCA), enough power to drive my center & rear channel speakers, stable while driving 4Ω speakers, and as many modern bells & whistles as reasonably possible without crippling something important to me. I don’t have experience using Audyssey, but at present I doubt if I’ll want to rely on it. As sources, I use:

• A Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Bluray player (it has WiFi built-in)
• A Google Chromecast dongle (connected via HDMI in my TV)
• A phonograph with a stand-alone phono pre-amp
• FM radio, along with an antenna in my attic. FM signals are very good where I live.

At present, my Bluray player sends video directly to my TV via HDMI, while it sends multi-channel audio to my AVR by 6 analog RCA cables. The Chromecast dongle is connected directly to a HDMI port on my TV. All this actually worked once it was all installed and set up properly. I’m looking forward to making full use of HDMI connections that include the AVR, as well as having a more modern source of WiFi directly in the AVR.

What other functions should I be interested in? That would include adding a digital sound source for music or video. My short list of AVRs to consider are these Denon models recently listed at A4L:

AVR-X3500H – $700 refurbed​

AVR-X3600H – $800 refurbed (not presently in stock)​

AVR-X3700H – $1000 refurbed​

AVR-X4300H – $750 refurbed​

AVR-X4500H – $1000 refurbed or new for $1200​

AVR-X4700H – $1400 refurbed​

I don’t have a favorite, but I’d like the price to be in the range of $700 to $1000. The 3600, 3700, and 4500 all look good. I have a vague memory of @PENG singing praise for the 3600, but I don’t remember what he said or why he said it. Are there any models you think might be good for my purposes? Or are there any models I should drop from my list? I’m not opposed to Marantz or Yamaha, I simply haven’t yet looked at what’s available.

 

[Hetfield]

God I loved B&K audio equipment. The very best HT processor I ever had, the best sounding processor I have had was a B&K. Very sad they went under.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Swerd]

God I loved B&K audio equipment. The very best HT processor I ever had, the best sounding processor I have had was a B&K. Very sad they went under.

B&K was once a good company. Their 300 and 500 series processors and AVRs were excellent. When they tried to make an HDMI processor in 2008/09, their initial efforts were faulty. During the banking crisis at that time, their sales dropped badly, banks called in their loans, and B&K went out of business. They weren't the only US based audio electronics company to go under.

All that is water under the bridge. I'm sad to admit my B&K AVR is ready to retire, but I think it is.

 

[mazersteven]

Denon 4500 new ✔

There is a Denon 3600 new on Amazon $899

 

[ryanosaur]

I like 3600, new.

 

[Hetfield]

B&K was once a good company. Their 300 and 500 series processors and AVRs were excellent. When they tried to make an HDMI processor in 2008/09, their initial efforts were faulty. During the banking crisis at that time, their sales dropped badly, banks called in their loans, and B&K went out of business. They weren't the only US based audio electronics company to go under.

All that is water under the bridge. I'm sad to admit my B&K AVR is ready to retire, but I think it is.

I can't remember the B&K processor I had? It was pre HDMI I know that.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[afterlife2]

Denon 4500 or 4300.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I just bought a new X3600h. Upgrading from my old non-hdmi Yamaha rxv2500. Everything is different... I'm learning Denon terminology and Audessy... We'll see about the room correction... I didn't use yamaha's but this is far more advanced. We'll see...

For me the 3600 is the sweet spot at this moment. You get all the modern stuff that you need at a good price. It seems to be favored by reviewers. 8k video is in its infancy and I'm not an early adopter... Obviously.

I can't answer if it can drive your speakers properly or not. I've told myself that it doesn't drive my old svs's properly I'll buy something else and move this to another system (That has an over 20 year old sony in it.) And or by a five-channel amp. Which is why I didn't go up a notch to the 4500 or find a yamaha rxa2080 or 3080.

Good luck!

 

[mazersteven]

For me the 3600 is the sweet spot at this moment.

New Sold Out everywhere. Only found one in Amazon.

 

[Hetfield]

I have the Denon X3400H from a few years ago. I recommend Denon for sure as Audyssey XT32 is pretty awesome.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Swerd]

I just bought a new X3600h. Upgrading from my old non-hdmi Yamaha rxv2500. Everything is different... I'm learning Denon terminology and Audessy... We'll see about the room correction... I didn't use yamaha's but this is far more advanced. We'll see...

For me the 3600 is the sweet spot at this moment. You get all the modern stuff that you need at a good price. It seems to be favored by reviewers. 8k video is in its infancy and I'm not an early adopter... Obviously.

It's good to hear your observations & experience. The 3600 is beginning to look like a good solution for me as well.

LOL about that Denon terminology . Denon's owner's manuals were probably written by Japanese engineers who knew little or no English. The Japanese I've worked with all were good scientists, but spoke & wrote English in a strange way. I don't know Japanese grammar, but they began a sentence with the middle of an idea, and then went out in both directions. I had to think/listen very hard just to understand them. Once written these manuals were shipped to someplace like Singapore for translation to English by guys who knew nothing about AVRs. In contrast, the Yamaha manuals I've seen were written in good English.

I can't answer if it can drive your speakers properly or not. I've told myself that it doesn't drive my old svs's properly I'll buy something else and move this to another system (That has an over 20 year old sony in it.) And or by a five-channel amp. Which is why I didn't go up a notch to the 4500 or find a yamaha rxa2080 or 3080.

I'm pretty certain that my center and rear speakers can be driven by 105 watts. I had a much older Denon AVR that produced 70 wpc, and it drove those speakers fine.

 

[afterlife2]

Looks like the 3600 goes on sale frequently for $650 if patient I bet it will go on sale again:

 

[TLS Guy]

I would avoid refurbs at all costs. You have to hope that you would purchase a unit that was returned working. Modern AVRs are not really serviceable and you really don't want one that has been torn apart in any event. An even bigger issue is that many faults are intermittent. If the unit works on the test bench, which usually occurs more often than not, then the fault will be missed.

Basically a modern complex AVR with a fault in most cases is a dud and has no business being resold in any guise, but scrapped. The only ones resold should be guaranteed open box only and not mucked about.

 

[Sachb]

Also, consider the Yamaha Aventage RX-A1080, I''ve got this AVR & replaced my aging Denon X2300W, which brought my speakers to life. You will definitely love its musical performance, especially for 2 channel listening.

It has tidal, Spotify, Amazon Music, Deezer, Napster built-in. Ypao RSC seems to have a done a wonderful job calibrating my speakers (Elac Debut 2.0 series).

Link: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-aventage-7-2-ch-bluetooth-capable-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-compatible-a-v-home-theater-receiver-with-amazon-alexa-built-in-black/6233406.p?skuId=6233406&intl=nosplash

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would avoid refurbs at all costs. You have to hope that you would purchase a unit that was returned working. Modern AVRs are not really serviceable and you really don't want one that has been torn apart in any event. An even bigger issue is that many faults are intermittent. If the unit works on the test bench, which usually occurs more often than not, then the fault will be missed.

Basically a modern complex AVR with a fault in most cases is a dud and has no business being resold in any guise, but scrapped. The only ones resold should be guaranteed open box only and not mucked about.

Refurbished? Where’s @VMPS-TIII ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In contrast, the Yamaha manuals I've seen were written in good English.

Really?

According to some Denon owners, Yamaha’s terminologies are so messed up that the Denon owners couldn’t figure out how to use Yamaha AVR after using a Denon.

 

[Alex2507]

Refurbished? Where’s @VMPS-TIII ?

Preach!

Richard, I'd keep an eye out on CL, Audiogon and AVS Forum Classifieds for something interesting to pop up locally to save money, have verbal assurance of functionality and eliminate risk of shipping damage. That's me.

But if I were you I would not miss this shot at one-up-manship with Doug.

That big Yammy that don't need no fans ... do it for the Salks.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

My Denon came back from warranty service in worse shape than when I sent it in 2 months ago. It was a disaster. I had to send it back in again.

So far, Denon warranty service is the worst I have ever seen. From now on, I'll just throw away a broken Denon as warranty service is horrible. I certainly would not count on it.

 

[PENG]

I'm pretty certain that my center and rear speakers can be driven by 105 watts. I had a much older Denon AVR that produced 70 wpc, and it drove those speakers fine.

In that case, I think a new AVR-X3600H or AVR-X4500H with full original factory warranty would be good for your need. The X4500H is a little more powerful but the difference will be less than 1 dB in output so it really boils down to a choice based on features and price.

I know I am not the only one who would not buy an AVR, AVP/C refurbished. There are too many things to go wrong in such a product. It is possible that many of those were just returns for other reasons than being defective, but chances are there you may end up with one that was in fact defective and not fixed properly, or the technicians did not notice the issue(s) for whatever reason and it get certified/labelled as "refurbished" after a thorough cleanup/inspection for physical damages.

New ones may have issues too but you normally have 90 days or so to return it for a refund or another new one. If the new one last 90 days trouble free, I bet it would last another 9 years as long as you keep it cool, and not abused..

 

[STRONGBADF1]

But if I were you I would not miss this shot at one-up-manship with Doug.

The Salk's have that covered. That and his suave / debonair way...