connection options?

mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
I'll try to make it short.

Problem: I want to add a subwoofer to my 2-ch audio setup. The power behind all that is an integrated that has no sub pre-out. To make the story even more complicated, The only set of pre-outs I have is a stage pre-out so if I remove the jumpers there is no sound that will be fed to the input so the result is no sound at all.

The subwoofer I want to buy is on HELL of a deal right now and I was wondering what could be my options:

1. "bi-wire" --> one pair to the speakers and one pair to the sub's line inputs (subwoofer doesn't have line outputs! huh?!), both from the speaker output posts (again, no A/Bing on this integrated, only 1 pair of output :()
2. buy a 2-ch receiver --> which would cost me a lot of money and would leave my beloved NAD unused.
3. ?? other options ??

p.s. the cheaper the better in this upgrade.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I'll try to make it short.

Problem: I want to add a subwoofer to my 2-ch audio setup. The power behind all that is an integrated that has no sub pre-out. To make the story even more complicated, The only set of pre-outs I have is a stage pre-out so if I remove the jumpers there is no sound that will be fed to the input so the result is no sound at all.
NADs generally lend themselves quite well to these situations thanks to that removable pre-out/main-in link.

Depending on the sub itself, you may have several options. All of which assume right and left line-level inputs at least. If it only has one line-level input, it can get a bit more costly and that's another post entirely.

1) Get hold of a pair of Female-Male-Male "Y" connector (I'm assuning RCA connectors) and replace the jumper, leaving the females dangling. This will maintain your existing signal path and provide an avenue to send a full-range signal to another line-level device. Connect these to the subwoofer, adjust it's crossover (used as a low-pass filter now), level and other controls to blend the sub in with the system. That could be the most time-taking part. It was for me.

Total cost : A pair of "Y" connectors and a stereo interconnect, which you would have needed anyway.

That's all you can really do, The rest is for others or lurkers that might find themselves in a similar situation.

2) If your sub has line-level inputs AND outputs, you would could simply remove the pre/main link, put them in a safe place, and use two pairs of interconnects to send the signal both to and from the subwoofer. Depending on the sub, it may send back a fileterd signal (sans bass) back to the mains.

3) In the worst case scenario, there's always speaker level connections. It could be either connected in parallel with your main speakers (Subs have a very high impedance in their operating range so the load will be minimal) or, if they also have outputs, you can connect your mains to them so they get a filetred output (no bass), thereby relieving them of the onerous duty of having to reproduce the los lows. I've got a pair of Minimus 7's running off an old DBX passive sub and a Marantz 2270 that are quite happy with this arrangement.
 
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mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
Get hold of a pair of Female-Male-Male "Y" connector (I'm assuning RCA connectors) and replace the jumper, leaving the females dangling. This will maintain your existing signal path and provide an avenue to send a full-range signal to another line-level device. Connect these to the subwoofer, adjust it's crossover (used as a low-pass filter now), level and other controls to blend the sub in with the system. That could be the most time-taking part. It was for me.

Total cost : A pair of "Y" connectors and a stereo interconnect, which you would have needed anyway.

That's all you can really do, The rest is for others or lurkers that might find themselves in a similar situation.
I like that idea... but that's assuming there is a pair of RCA inputs on the subwoofer. This one only has one connector, carrying the whole signal. So a third Y connector would be required.


BTW, I just talked to my local AudioShop and they told me that they would see no problems in my "bi-wire" setup. What do you guys think of that?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
This is another post entrely.

I like that idea... but that's assuming there is a pair of RCA inputs on the subwoofer. This one only has one connector, carrying the whole signal.
Sorry. You threw me off when you said in your first post "...and one pair to the sub's line inputs ". That led me to believe there was a right and left line-level input.

Get ready to spend money. You need some way to derive a common bass channel while maintaining the two separate channels. This is not as easy as it sounds.

I used to recommend Paradigm's X-30 subwoofer combiner/crossover which was made for exactly these situations but it seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Perhaos others in the industry might be able to suggest an alternative.

So a third Y connector would be required.
Oh, were it that simple. You can't just "join" two preamp outputs together into one and not expect some ramifications.

1) At best, the entire signal path (not just the subwoofer) from then on will be mono.

2) Phase interactions will be amplified. This includes both in and out of phase conditions.

3) You might even damage the preamp outputs, but there's no guarantee for that.

BTW, I just talked to my local AudioShop and they told me that they would see no problems in my "bi-wire" setup. What do you guys think of that?
Maybe I'm dense but even after reading what you want to do a few times, I'm lost. Remember, he's got a vested interest in selling you a subwoofer.

As for your other options you stated in your first post, this sub won't mate with ANY stereo system. It's made to work with either a HT receiver that has a sub out, or a system with an external crossover/combiner like I described above.
 
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Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
mouettus, is the sub the ESW-V8 that you were looking at earlier this month?
 
mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
mouettus, is the sub the ESW-V8 that you were looking at earlier this month?
It is indeed. What else would you expect from the unofficial Energy spokesman of the forum?! haha

I finally got it home and hooked it up in parallel (<--right term) with the line level inputs. Everything works fine (except my shredded fingers from combining two 10awg bare wires lol). You have no idea what I had to do to make it fit into the amp's hole! :p

Everything is good now. I also pushed the system hard gradually to see if there was any sound degradation and everything seems good. The only drawback to this option is that the main speakers still receive full range. sub's x-over is at 70hz.

Now I KNOW that this setup is not ideal but very good for the money I put into. Besides, it's my computer setup... I just wanted to add some punch. Maybe I'll buy a 2-ch receiver later if I find a good deal. But for now, I won't sweat it...

BTW... I'm so glad I bought this sub. It just proves that I wasn't wrong about the ESW-V10... the 8in has the same awesome sound characteristics. 600$ sub for 300$ on sale............ me = very happy!

Product page:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-page.php?id=341
Specs:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-specs.php?id=341
 
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