Connecting subs to Integrated Amp

[ifsixwasnin9]

I have a Yamaha AX-596 100W Integrated Amp, Carver Preamp and JBL L110 speakers. I want to add 1 or 2 powered subs to my system. My integrated amp doesn't have any input jacks for subs. How would I connect the sub(s) to my integrated amp? Where can I find a schematic to do this?

 

[lovinthehd]

You'd want a sub pre-out on your pre-amp or integrated amp, but many 2ch units don't provide such. What connections does your sub have? You could split the stereo signal from your pre-amp to the sub and integrated amp with a simple rca y-splitter into the stereo inputs of the sub (and let the sub sum it mono). If it has high level/speaker level inputs you could do it from the speaker terminals on the integrated too. Curious, why are you using both a pre-amp and an integrated?

 

[-Jim-]

You can also go to Subs with High Level Inputs.

Like the RSL Speedwoofer 12S


Check this out RSL Speedwoofer 12S Subwoofer Review - True 16Hz Extension!

I hope this is helpful.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a Yamaha AX-596 100W Integrated Amp, Carver Preamp and JBL L110 speakers. I want to add 1 or 2 powered subs to my system. My integrated amp doesn't have any input jacks for subs. How would I connect the sub(s) to my integrated amp? Where can I find a schematic to do this?

Those speakers are 44 to 47 years old. First production marketed in 1977 I assume the woofers have been refoamed once or more.

I don't understand why you have an integrated amp and a preamp. That makes no sense.

Anyhow your AX-596 has a preamp/amp loops with jumpers.

So you can remove the jumpers and connect RCA Y connectors instead. Then you can connect the single end of each Y connector to the sub input. This will give you stereo subs, which is not ideal. If you mono the subs, then the whole rig will be mono.

The other issue is that those speakers are only rated at 75 watts, and were made before digital sources which have a much more potent bass output. Ideally you need proper bass management. You could do this with a dual channel electronic crossover. You would connect each preamp out to the correct left and right pre outs. The high pass would go the pre-ins on the Yamaha, and the low pass to the sub inputs.

I am not convinced a rig this old is worth the expense. You would be better off with an updated rig most likely.

Speakers of that era with those 4" "sqauarker" midrange units were not really happy affairs in my view. I remember those speakers and they did not impress me even back then. They were not an uncommon speaker to find in people's homes in those days.

Thiele/Small did not widely publish their paper on loudspeaker parameters until 1971. KEF had supported this research and were using it in their designs in the late sixties. In the US this research did not get applied until the late seventies and by most US manufacturers not until circa 1980. So it is questionable whether those speakers were designed with the benefit and Thiele and Smalls work in Australia. From what I remember of the sound of those speakers, I doubt it.

 

[ifsixwasnin9]

What connections does your sub have? You could split the stereo signal from your pre-amp to the sub and integrated amp with a simple rca y-splitter into the stereo inputs of the sub (and let the sub sum it mono). If it has high level/speaker level inputs you could do it from the speaker terminals on the integrated too. Curious, why are you using both a pre-amp and an integrated?

I don't have any subs yet. Other forums recommended a powered sub(s). I'm not sure what type of speaker inputs I have, I have to look at my manual. I bought a preamp because it has a Midrange control which I really love. And there's something wrong with the Integrated amp: It has "Pure Direct" and "CD/DVD Direct" buttons. When they are on they are supposed to bypass the circuitry to give a better direct sound and the bass/treble/loudness are bypassed, too (so I can't use them). For some reason, when I turn both Direct buttons off I get no signal at all! So I can't get the bass/treble to work on my Integrated amp, period. I contacted Yamaha Support and they told me something's wrong internally with the amp if this is happening.

I am not convinced a rig this old is worth the expense. You would be better off with an updated rig most likely.

L110's are by far the best speakers I've owned and I've tried a lot of speakers (Polk, Infinity, Klipsch, B&W, ADS, JBL L100). L110's give the most realistic vocals and highs I've heard but the bass is not as well-defined as I would like which is why I want to add a sub(s). I'm on a really tight budget because I'm on disability and in debt and I can't put money into other expensive speakers. The Infinity and B&W cost me a lot of money and they were really disappointing. Infinity's were harsh and B&W had lousy bass definition. So I thought adding sub(s) would be the solution for my system. I listen to a lot of Sabbath, Priest, Robin Trower, ZZ Top, Cream, Joe Satriani, Van Halen at high volume and the L110's hit really hard and are balanced and sound very realistic.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't have any subs yet. Other forums recommended a powered sub(s). I'm not sure what type of speaker inputs I have, I have to look at my manual. I bought a preamp because it has a Midrange control which I really love. And there's something wrong with the Integrated amp: It has "Pure Direct" and "CD/DVD Direct" buttons. When they are on they are supposed to bypass the circuitry to give a better direct sound and the bass/treble/loudness are bypassed, too (so I can't use them). For some reason, when I turn both Direct buttons off I get no signal at all! So I can't get the bass/treble to work on my Integrated amp, period. I contacted Yamaha Support and they told me something's wrong internally with the amp if this is happening.

L110's are by far the best speakers I've owned and I've tried a lot of speakers (Polk, Infinity, Klipsch, B&W, ADS, JBL L100). L110's give the most realistic vocals and highs I've heard but the bass is not as well-defined as I would like which is why I want to add a sub(s). I'm on a really tight budget because I'm on disability and in debt and I can't put money into other expensive speakers. The Infinity and B&W cost me a lot of money and they were really disappointing. Infinity's were harsh and B&W had lousy bass definition. So I thought adding sub(s) would be the solution for my system. I listen to a lot of Sabbath, Priest, Robin Trower, ZZ Top, Cream, Joe Satriani, Van Halen at high volume and the L110's hit really hard and are balanced and sound very realistic.

Your best SQ will come from the Y cord method to the pre-out, amp-in connectors after you remove the jumpers.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't have any subs yet. Other forums recommended a powered sub(s). I'm not sure what type of speaker inputs I have, I have to look at my manual. I bought a preamp because it has a Midrange control which I really love. And there's something wrong with the Integrated amp: It has "Pure Direct" and "CD/DVD Direct" buttons. When they are on they are supposed to bypass the circuitry to give a better direct sound and the bass/treble/loudness are bypassed, too (so I can't use them). For some reason, when I turn both Direct buttons off I get no signal at all! So I can't get the bass/treble to work on my Integrated amp, period. I contacted Yamaha Support and they told me something's wrong internally with the amp if this is happening.

L110's are by far the best speakers I've owned and I've tried a lot of speakers (Polk, Infinity, Klipsch, B&W, ADS, JBL L100). L110's give the most realistic vocals and highs I've heard but the bass is not as well-defined as I would like which is why I want to add a sub(s). I'm on a really tight budget because I'm on disability and in debt and I can't put money into other expensive speakers. The Infinity and B&W cost me a lot of money and they were really disappointing. Infinity's were harsh and B&W had lousy bass definition. So I thought adding sub(s) would be the solution for my system. I listen to a lot of Sabbath, Priest, Robin Trower, ZZ Top, Cream, Joe Satriani, Van Halen at high volume and the L110's hit really hard and are balanced and sound very realistic.

Pretty much of the subs offered generally these days I'd think it's like 98% are going to be powered/active. Picking the sub with the connectivity you want can be different from buying a sub you think will connect the way you imagine.....

 

[-Jim-]

You can also go to Subs with High Level Inputs.

Like the RSL Speedwoofer 12S


Check this out RSL Speedwoofer 12S Subwoofer Review - True 16Hz Extension!

I hope this is helpful.

Gents,

The simple solution is as I stated above => Subs with High Level Inputs. Use the "B" speaker outputs.

See Yamaha AX-596 Manual. No need to mess around with RCA loops and Y cables.

 

[TLS Guy]

Gents,

The simple solution is as I stated above => Subs with High Level Inputs. Use the "B" speaker outputs.

See Yamaha AX-596 Manual. No need to mess around with RCA loops and Y cables.

My connection is a higher quality connection though. Also you can use it with any sub. Very few subs have speaker level connections anymore. It is not complicated but very simple to use the preouts and amp ins. It is very easy to do and not difficult or complicated.

 

[-Jim-]

My connection is a higher quality connection though. Also you can use it with any sub. Very few subs have speaker level connections anymore. It is not complicated but very simple to use the preouts and amp ins. It is very easy to do and not difficult or complicated.

@TLS Guy , while I typically use RCA connections on most of my Subs (which allows the Room Correction software to tweak it for you), I wouldn't say it's a "higher quality connection". Some Sub OEMs, like REL recommend using High / Speaker Level Inputs.

Even HSU just released VTF-TN1 Subwoofer has Balanced XLR (2), Line Level (2), and Speaker Level (2) Inputs. (It's already sold out it's first production run by the way.) Many Subs new and Used have High or Speaker Level inputs that work just fine.

 

[ifsixwasnin9]

You can also go to Subs with High Level Inputs.
Like the RSL Speedwoofer 12S
Use the "B" speaker outputs.

I'm thinking of adding another pair of JBLs to my system for quadraphonic sound so I would have to connect them to my amp's "B" speaker outputs. (I added $1500 JBL L150's to my JBL L110's 2 yrs ago for quad sound and I loved it but had to get rid of the L150 because I'm in deep debt.) I still didn't have the defined bass that I wanted when I added the L150's but I loved the quad sound. My 100W Yamaha amp pushed my 4 JBLs very well. I was impressed. (My bass/treble never worked on my Yamaha Amp and it's not that old.)
The RSL subs are much too expensive for me. In other forums someone recommended subs that were around $300 but I forget what make they were.
Over the last 2 yrs I did some very stupid things and bought several very expensive classical guitars which I shouldn't have done because I can't afford it. I haven't even played them because I've been extremely sick the last 20-30 years.

 

[-Jim-]

If $$ is an issue, I'd suggest you look t the used market or "B stock" if you can find it. If you are going for two Subs get the same model. Do not mix Ported and Sealed Subs.

You can still connect Subs via the High Level Inputs along with your Speakers. (I do it in my Man Cave / Junk Room for my computer Speakers off an old Denon AVR-S900W.) Read the manual for the Subs.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[highfigh]

Gents,

The simple solution is as I stated above => Subs with High Level Inputs. Use the "B" speaker outputs.

See Yamaha AX-596 Manual. No need to mess around with RCA loops and Y cables.

Why bother with the speaker outputs when it clearly has jumpers between the preamp and power amp? The sub will have level control and crossover, so it's much easier to just pick one and connect it via Y cords.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm thinking of adding another pair of JBLs to my system for quadraphonic sound so I would have to connect them to my amp's "B" speaker outputs. (I added $1500 JBL L150's to my JBL L110's 2 yrs ago for quad sound and I loved it but had to get rid of the L150 because I'm in deep debt.) I still didn't have the defined bass that I wanted when I added the L150's but I loved the quad sound. My 100W Yamaha amp pushed my 4 JBLs very well. I was impressed. (My bass/treble never worked on my Yamaha Amp and it's not that old.)
The RSL subs are much too expensive for me. In other forums someone recommended subs that were around $300 but I forget what make they were.
Over the last 2 yrs I did some very stupid things and bought several very expensive classical guitars which I shouldn't have done because I can't afford it. I haven't even played them because I've been extremely sick the last 20-30 years.

Absolutely do not do that. First of all, it will not be quadraphonic, but four channel stereo which is a mess. More importantly it will blow up your integrated amp. That is because A & B speakers are not intended to be run at the same time. If you do then all speakers will be in parallel, and drop the load impedance low enough to blow your amp.

From what I remember of those speakers, and this is a long time ago, the bass was not well defined. Your ideal solution, but complicated, would be to put an electronic crossover in the preamp to amp loop and send the high pass to the JBLs and the low pass to the subs.

I am not really convinced that a cheap sub with no crossover is going to improve your listening experience and could make it worse.

Those JBL speakers actually go down pretty low. The issue is, that as I remember them the bass was far from the best quality.

As an historical note, your speakers go back to the old "West Coast/East coast" divide. JBL were East Coast and had the deeper 'tubbier" bass and Altec Lansing were the West Coast flag bearers with less deep bass, but tight as a drum literally.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm thinking of adding another pair of JBLs to my system for quadraphonic sound so I would have to connect them to my amp's "B" speaker outputs. (I added $1500 JBL L150's to my JBL L110's 2 yrs ago for quad sound and I loved it but had to get rid of the L150 because I'm in deep debt.) I still didn't have the defined bass that I wanted when I added the L150's but I loved the quad sound. My 100W Yamaha amp pushed my 4 JBLs very well. I was impressed. (My bass/treble never worked on my Yamaha Amp and it's not that old.)
The RSL subs are much too expensive for me. In other forums someone recommended subs that were around $300 but I forget what make they were.
Over the last 2 yrs I did some very stupid things and bought several very expensive classical guitars which I shouldn't have done because I can't afford it. I haven't even played them because I've been extremely sick the last 20-30 years.

I have found your best cost effective solution. This unit can be connected to your integrated amp and will give you bass management, which is what you need.

 

[Trebdp83]

Really, no info offered or asked about the Carver Pre amp? It's essential to get ALL of the information concerning a system before offering up any settings advice. It kind of matters not here, as @TLS Guy mentioned in one of his posts, concerning quadraphonic signal output. Adding two more speakers to a two channel system is essentially like putting a multichannel receiver into ALL CHANNEL STEREO mode. Multichannel formats will not be output as intended using a Stereo system. There are still some inexpensive subwoofers out there that include IN and OUT speaker terminals for those with Stereo units with no SUB PRE OUT.

 

[ifsixwasnin9]

Absolutely do not do that. First of all, it will not be quadraphonic, but four channel stereo which is a mess. More importantly it will blow up your integrated amp. That is because A & B speakers are not intended to be run at the same time. If you do then all speakers will be in parallel, and drop the load impedance low enough to blow your amp. From what I remember of those speakers, and this is a long time ago, the bass was not well defined. Your ideal solution, but complicated, would be to put an electronic crossover in the preamp to amp loop and send the high pass to the JBLs and the low pass to the subs. I am not really convinced that a cheap sub with no crossover is going to improve your listening experience and could make it worse.

Really? Then I guess I really don't know what the word "quadraphonic" means. What's a good example of quadraphonic sound? Did quadraphonic sound exist when vintage audio was present in the 1960's/1970's or is it a newer concept? I guess I should look the term up.
My Yamaha Amp had no problem pushing my L150's and L110's at the same time (and I played them very loud!).
And believe it or not - my Logitech 2.1 PC speakers have better well-defined bass than my Yamaha/JBL system does!!! Is that crazy??? My Logitech sub sounds great and I have the speakers/sub located on the bottom shelf of my desk.
My JBL110's are situated a few feet from the wall on stands that are 1 ft above the floor in a room that is maybe 13x18 (so I think I've given them enough room because they use ported bass).

Really, no info offered or asked about the Carver Pre amp?Adding two more speakers to a two channel system is essentially like putting a multichannel receiver into ALL CHANNEL STEREO mode.

I don't understand this. Then why does my Yamaha Integrated Amp have outputs for 2 pairs of speakers? It's not intended to use two pairs of speakers? What's it intended for? I guess I have to read the Yamaha manual again very carefully.
I'm not sure why I bought the Carver preamp to tell you the truth. I guess I don't know much about electrical engineering (And I have a mechanical engineering degree from PSU. I had to study really hard in Electrical Engineering 101 to pass the class...it wasn't easy). All I know is the Preamp has a Midrange control which is really an asset to have.
Thanks for the suggestions for a crossover! I really appreciate it!

 

[Trebdp83]

It will output the same two channel signal to both sets of speakers when using them. It cannot process multichannel signals.

 

[lovinthehd]

Really? Then I guess I really don't know what the word "quadraphonic" means. What's a good example of quadraphonic sound? Did quadraphonic sound exist when vintage audio was present in the 1960's/1970's or is it a newer concept? I guess I should look the term up.
My Yamaha Amp had no problem pushing my L150's and L110's at the same time (and I played them very loud!).
And believe it or not - my Logitech 2.1 PC speakers have better well-defined bass than my Yamaha/JBL system does!!! Is that crazy??? My Logitech sub sounds great and I have the speakers/sub located on the bottom shelf of my desk.
My JBL110's are situated a few feet from the wall on stands that are 1 ft above the floor in a room that is maybe 13x18 (so I think I've given them enough room because they use ported bass).

I don't understand this. Then why does my Yamaha Integrated Amp have outputs for 2 pairs of speakers? It's not intended to use two pairs of speakers? What's it intended for? I guess I have to read the Yamaha manual again very carefully.
I'm not sure why I bought the Carver preamp to tell you the truth. I guess I don't know much about electrical engineering (And I have a mechanical engineering degree from PSU. I had to study really hard in Electrical Engineering 101 to pass the class...it wasn't easy). All I know is the Preamp has a Midrange control which is really an asset to have.
Thanks for the suggestions for a crossover! I really appreciate it!

Quadraphonic is four discrete channels, deliberately recorded that way. Back in the day you needed a particular recording (vinyl or reel to reel) and special receiver/decoder, not just four speakers and 2ch gear. You can still get quad recordings via SACD, tho. Having two sets of speaker terminals are generally to have sound in two different rooms (with modern gear they do it via "zones").

Are the two systems in the same room?

 

[TLS Guy]

Really? Then I guess I really don't know what the word "quadraphonic" means. What's a good example of quadraphonic sound? Did quadraphonic sound exist when vintage audio was present in the 1960's/1970's or is it a newer concept? I guess I should look the term up.
My Yamaha Amp had no problem pushing my L150's and L110's at the same time (and I played them very loud!).
And believe it or not - my Logitech 2.1 PC speakers have better well-defined bass than my Yamaha/JBL system does!!! Is that crazy??? My Logitech sub sounds great and I have the speakers/sub located on the bottom shelf of my desk.
My JBL110's are situated a few feet from the wall on stands that are 1 ft above the floor in a room that is maybe 13x18 (so I think I've given them enough room because they use ported bass).

I don't understand this. Then why does my Yamaha Integrated Amp have outputs for 2 pairs of speakers? It's not intended to use two pairs of speakers? What's it intended for? I guess I have to read the Yamaha manual again very carefully.
I'm not sure why I bought the Carver preamp to tell you the truth. I guess I don't know much about electrical engineering (And I have a mechanical engineering degree from PSU. I had to study really hard in Electrical Engineering 101 to pass the class...it wasn't easy). All I know is the Preamp has a Midrange control which is really an asset to have.
Thanks for the suggestions for a crossover! I really appreciate it!

Yes, quadraphonic sound was the earliest multichannel audio. It was honestly worse than useless in most respects. Using A & B speakers will not give you quadraphonic sound. The A & B speakers in your amp use the same two power amps. You only have two and not four. The A & B speakers are for speakers in different rooms primarily and not designed to be used concurrently.

I am not altogether surprised that you find the logitech system sounds better than the JBLs. This is where I have to get brutally honest with you. Those JBL speakers were pushed pretty hard by local dealers in our area at the time. So, I am very familiar with their sound, and time has not dimmed my memory of how awful they were. This notwithstanding how lauded they were in the Hi-Fi press at the time. More than any other speaker I can remember, convinced me to never ever own a speakers from a major speaker manufacturer. I never have, and never will. I have done much better sticking to my own designs and builds.

So, returning to your problem. The bass of those speakers is severely mistuned. So the problem is that if you add a sub without bass management, you won't have improvement, and quite likely make things worse. That is because you will have the sub bass mixed with your JBL mistuned bass.

So, the solution I found for you will relieve your JBL speakers of the mistuned bass frequency zone and give it to the sub. So that would at least ameliorate the bass problem.