Computers and HT – Good together or HT hell?

[b_panther_g]

What do you guys think of a computer integrated into your HT? I know what some of you are thinking…

You already have an HTPC (Home theater PC)? An HTPC is a computer add-on to your HT. It is a watered down version of what I'm referring to.

I’m talking about a home theater with component(s) that have the processing power, versatility, storage, and/or communications abilities of a computer. Here are some examples…



You are watching TV and see a commercial that interests you. There is a website address at the bottom of the screen. You hit a “go to” button. A PIP window opens and takes you to the website.

or

You like to listen to your ________ (fill in the blank) CD with a little more bass on track 3. Your system knows this and adjusts accordingly.

or

You like your bookshelf speakers but you want a full ranged signal in the front. You get 2 or 3 subs for the front channels. You draw/input the response curve that you want and the system does it for you. You can choose the flattest response with no boost >3db, or flattest response down to 30Hz and a 6db increase to 20Hz, etc. The system corrects for timing, phase, volume issues, etc.




I’d really like a system that’s easy to use and tailor made just for me. I think a computer based system could be just that. It would remember all my preferences and do everything just the way I like. What could be better?

Do you guys think the integration of HT and computer is a good thing? Will it lead to more problems than solutions? Or will it happen anyway so we should just sit back and deal with whatever happens?


Later,
B

 

[av_phile]

The way you described it sounds very promising, and certainly worth having both integrated into your hobby. I have my own PC serving as a wav server connected to my preamp via S/PDIF so I can just point and click the music I want to hear in those days when I just feel like not popping a CD or DVD.


But I think there are things that can already be done, like

You are watching TV and see a commercial that interests you. There is a website address at the bottom of the screen. You hit a “go to” button. A PIP window opens and takes you to the website.

I think this is one of the interactivity features promised in high-defenition TV broadcasting. It's already here, if not mistaken.

or

You like to listen to your ________ (fill in the blank) CD with a little more bass on track 3. Your system knows this and adjusts accordingly.

Well, I already do this with the music wav files in my server - all normalized to the same peak levels and bass levels. So there'd be no surprises one way or the other when I select a set of titles in any combination. But I had to do it manually for each title.

What you want is an AI-based system with terrabyte storage capacity to scan and store all your music files and do the normalization automatically based on your preferrence both for peak levels and bass ON DEMAND or stored. That would be nice.

or

You like your bookshelf speakers but you want a full ranged signal in the front. You get 2 or 3 subs for the front channels. You draw/input the response curve that you want and the system does it for you. You can choose the flattest response with no boost >3db, or flattest response down to 30Hz and a 6db increase to 20Hz, etc. The system corrects for timing, phase, volume issues, etc.

Speakers are constrained by so many factors that I doubt drawing your preferred response curve can be achieved if your speakers aren't up for this or that part of curve you want. I think there are already receivers in the market that does a respectable job of tailoring the sound with the room accoustics using a microphone and feedback mechanism to correct/adjust for room accoustics. That is where an AI-based system can do a better job of matching your speakers with the room accostics.

I’d really like a system that’s easy to use and tailor made just for me. I think a computer based system could be just that. It would remember all my preferences and do everything just the way I like. What could be better?

A computer system is only a set of coded instructions that does what you want. You can always commission a seasoned programmer to make an HT application that could do what you want.

Do you guys think the integration of HT and computer is a good thing? Will it lead to more problems than solutions? Or will it happen anyway so we should just sit back and deal with whatever happens?

Later,
B

HT and computer are already integrated in many digital receivers and preamps we use today. Those DSP chips with their digital processing prowess are microprocessors themselves. So maybe sitting back and enjoying your hobby with what you have today isn't a bad idea. Newer more user-thoughtful technologies will just fall on your lap sooner or later.

 

[b_panther_g]

av_phile,


True. The predecessors to some of the things that I described do exist, but I was talking about going a step beyond what is here today.

There are receivers with auto eq. But I’d like to see a lot more adjustability and accuracy. I am referring to some type RTA software, something that allows me to see the response curve(s) of each speaker. Then it allows me to draw the curve I want (with in the limits of the speakers of course), and makes the necessary adjustments.

I also have a PC acting as a music server (among other things). Like you, if I want to “improve” the sound, I adjust the setting of each track/album manually. (BTW – The preamp portion of Winamp’s EQ really helps me tame bright recordings. YMMV). I’d like to see “super advanced ID tags” for each track, ones that adjust the EQ or DSP or whatever automatically.

As far as the TV thing, I don’t know how that’s possible w/o some sort of new technology that gives the DTV box some additional ability. If you can find any more info about this, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just think that computers are powerful enough to do many of these things right now. I’m just surprised that I haven’t seen any cost-no-object hi-end components including these types of features. What about standards? I haven’t even read about anyone coming up with the communications standards or interface(s) to ensure all components work together – regardless of which company makes it.

It seems to me that certain technologies are more of a lateral move or baby step rather that true advancement. (DVI + Firewire vs. HDMI)

But that’s my opinion. What's yours?


Later,
B

 

[av_phile]

av_phile,


True. The predecessors to some of the things that I described do exist, but I was talking about going a step beyond what is here today.

There are receivers with auto eq. But I’d like to see a lot more adjustability and accuracy. I am referring to some type RTA software, something that allows me to see the response curve(s) of each speaker. Then it allows me to draw the curve I want (with in the limits of the speakers of course), and makes the necessary adjustments.

I also have a PC acting as a music server (among other things). Like you, if I want to “improve” the sound, I adjust the setting of each track/album manually. (BTW – The preamp portion of Winamp’s EQ really helps me tame bright recordings. YMMV). I’d like to see “super advanced ID tags” for each track, ones that adjust the EQ or DSP or whatever automatically.

As far as the TV thing, I don’t know how that’s possible w/o some sort of new technology that gives the DTV box some additional ability. If you can find any more info about this, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just think that computers are powerful enough to do many of these things right now. I’m just surprised that I haven’t seen any cost-no-object hi-end components including these types of features. What about standards? I haven’t even read about anyone coming up with the communications standards or interface(s) to ensure all components work together – regardless of which company makes it.

It seems to me that certain technologies are more of a lateral move or baby step rather that true advancement. (DVI + Firewire vs. HDMI)

But that’s my opinion. What's yours?


Later,
B

Well, either what you're saying is true, or we just aren't looking hard enough. Maybe there are already such gadgets somewhere. At least the potentials for what you want are there. Maybe the market in the broader sense isn't ready for it as what the market researchers from audio vendors have dugged up. Maybe they're just moving ahead on the safe side. Even the interconnections between soundcards and receivers aren't standard. What are those baby headphone jacks doing in sound cards? Why not RCA? Where's the S/PDIF outlet that can match the S/PDIF outlet in my processor?

I've read a lot about the convergence between information tech and entertainment and they've come to call it "infotainment" But nothing really much had come of it except those multimedia PC centers from Sony and others. I think Bill Gates had earlier predicted the same convergence but it seems his preoccupation these days are mobile computing and its convergence with cellphones, if not mistaken. Though his idea of networking the home so that a central PC server can control all the electronic and electrical appliances even remotely is a start in that direction.

But, maybe I'm too old to expect something like that to happen in my lifetime. That's why the interest isn't as ebullient as it should. If you're 20 something, you most likely can.

 

[b_panther_g]

“What are those baby headphone jacks doing in sound cards? Why not RCA? Where's the S/PDIF outlet that can match the S/PDIF outlet in my processor?”

Try looking for a PRO or Semi PRO soundcard. They have RCA and Toslink S/PDIF output.

I don’t look to Microsoft for any real innovation. I can’t think of a single innovation that started at Microsoft. They’re really good at finding other people’s innovations and taking them.

I do remember that Kenwood was trying to market a PC-like device called an “Entertainment Hub”. It had the ability to store CDs, fine music on the net, I think it could save personal settings, etc. But it wasn’t too successful because they released it too early – all the bugs made for some very unhappy customers.

I just can’t shake this thought… I can get an old $100 computer that no one wants. I can connect it to several peripherals (printer - $50, scanner - $50, etc.) and they can communicate with each other. The computer sends instructions to the devices and the devices sends status info to the computer. Bottom line…with my junk computer and cheap add-ons, I can get a lot done. What’s holding back HT? I’ve spent thousands on my HT. Some people spend $10,000 on just one component. Why aren’t these things more customizable? The technology exists. The computing power can’t still be that cost prohibitive. Aren’t the big companies missing a huge opportunity here?

I want more options from my HT. I can’t be the only one, can I?

Later,
B

 

[Khellandros66]

Ok I am really into both hobbies, if you want a a great HTPC here is what to get w/o breaking the bank

AMD A64 2800+ andZalman 7000CU Cooler
MSI or Asus Socket 754 Mobo
OCZ PC3200revII 2-2-2 Ram 1GB (2x512MB)
WD Raptor 36.7GB SATA Hard Drive
WD 200GB SATA Hard Drive
Lite-On 12x DVD+RW 832s
6800GT
VGA to Component Convertor (if necessary)
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS or M-Audo Rev7.1
Win XP SP1a (SP2 is still riddled with bugs)
MEEDIO
Ahanix DVINE ATX HTPC Case (get 80mm Panaflos 21dB 24cfm)
OCZ Powerstream 420w PSU

This setup can run next gen games and kick *** in home Theater.

~Bob

 

[b_panther_g]

Khellandros66,

Thanks for the advice, but I already have an HTPC. Actually I have a small network. I built a “media server” so I can access it from any of my PCs.

I was referring to the advancement of audio/video components by integrating computer functionality.

Later,
B

 

[av_phile]

“What are those baby headphone jacks doing in sound cards? Why not RCA? Where's the S/PDIF outlet that can match the S/PDIF outlet in my processor?”

Try looking for a PRO or Semi PRO soundcard. They have RCA and Toslink S/PDIF output.

Thanks for the info, will look for one in my next upgrade. I had thought that the Creative Labs audigy series was proffessional enough, I apparently was misinformed.

I don’t look to Microsoft for any real innovation. I can’t think of a single innovation that started at Microsoft. They’re really good at finding other people’s innovations and taking them.

You're not the first I heard with this sentiment. I can agree, though you have to credit them for making some right finds.

I do remember that Kenwood was trying to market a PC-like device called an “Entertainment Hub”. It had the ability to store CDs, fine music on the net, I think it could save personal settings, etc. But it wasn’t too successful because they released it too early – all the bugs made for some very unhappy customers.

I just can’t shake this thought… I can get an old $100 computer that no one wants. I can connect it to several peripherals (printer - $50, scanner - $50, etc.) and they can communicate with each other. The computer sends instructions to the devices and the devices sends status info to the computer. Bottom line…with my junk computer and cheap add-ons, I can get a lot done. What’s holding back HT? I’ve spent thousands on my HT. Some people spend $10,000 on just one component. Why aren’t these things more customizable? The technology exists. The computing power can’t still be that cost prohibitive. Aren’t the big companies missing a huge opportunity here?

I want more options from my HT. I can’t be the only one, can I?

Later,
B

Nope, you're not the only one. Count me in as well. It's this convergence between IT and entertainment that holds the key. So far, nothing much has realy been done to further it after the first time I heard it many years back.

I've seen some ONKYO receivers that have this NETTUNE feature that is supposed to connect to your PC via a USB cable if not mistaken. Then, your receiver can play all the MP3 files stored in the PC. That's all. The other concrete convergence are the use of those TV cards and soundcards or audio-video enabled motherboards in PCs touted as "entertainment" centers like the sony viao series. Other than that, there's not even a regulating agency to standardize on computer-HT interfaces. I am not even sure if those firewire and HDMI interfaces work on PCs.

I haven't attended in any of them, but if you have the chance to attend those annual events on entertainment like the CEDIA or something, perhaps they already have the gadgets you have in mind. If they do, at this early, they surely must cost both arms and legs.

 

[docferdie]

6800GT


~Bob

I have to disagree with your choice of video card. If you watch a lot of HDTV then you will inevitably watch a lot of 1080i programs and you need a great hardware deinterlacer. For the price nothing beats the adaptive per pixel deinterlacing of the radeon line. I myself have an x800 XT PE but I did try out both the 6800 GT and 6800 Ultra.

 

[CWS]

Ok I am really into both hobbies, if you want a a great HTPC here is what to get w/o breaking the bank

AMD A64 2800+ andZalman 7000CU Cooler
MSI or Asus Socket 754 Mobo

This setup can run next gen games and kick *** in home Theater.

~Bob

Games yes, if you want your HTPC to do video processing with Ffdshow…Intel's offerings perform better than AMD's - so I've read (on avsforum). Also…if you're going to do an Athlon64 system, why not do a 939 pin socket that allows dual channel RAM?

My $0.02...