Component DACs vs. Receiver DACs?

[Aburtch]

Greetings. I have a question about using the Digital-to-Audio Converters in components vs. using the ones in the receiver.

I had assumed the best sound would be to run the digital (optical or coax) outputs from my components into the receiver, but recently a couple of salesmen have told me that no, the on-board DACs in the components would be better then the ones in my receiver so I should run the analog outs to the receiver instead.

My receiver is a brand new Yamaha RX-V659.

The components in question are:

DAT player - Tascam DA-40

CD Changer - either a Rotel RCC1055, Marantz CC4001, or Denon DCM-390 (haven't decided which one to purchase yet)

DVD player - Sony DVP-NS90V

Does anyone know if the DACs in the components listed above are any better than the ones in the Yamaha 659?

And as a side note does anyone have an opinion on which of the three CD changers is the way to go?

Thanks in advance.

 

[j_garcia]

The easy way, and possibly the only way to find out, is to hook each one up with both and compare.

Another thing to consider, specifically in regards to DVD players, is bass management for all channels. A receiver will almost always do a better job in this regard than the player, so that is something to consider also. I would imagine the 659's DACs will be better than the NS90V's.

Of the CD players, I'd probably go with the Rotel. I love Marantz, but I am not a fan of thier CD changers. If using the receiver's DACs, which one you go with becomes more of a feature issue than a sound issue.

 

[supervij]

Another thing to consider, specifically in regards to DVD players, is bass management for all channels. A receiver will almost always do a better job in this regard than the player, so that is something to consider also.

j, could you explain this to me, please? Do you mean that the player has a tougher time with the 80 Hz (or whatever) crossover for each channel? Or is it the subwoofer level that gets botched? Or something else entirely?

Ever since I got my Oppo, I discovered that music (CDs and DVDs) sounds better using its DACs rather than those of my receiver. (Whereas it sounded pretty much identical between my receiver and my old Pioneer 588a.) So for music, I switch to the multi-channel inputs on my receiver. But is there something I should do/enable/disable/switch on my Oppo in regards to the bass management problem you mention?

cheers,
supervij

 

[j_garcia]

If the speakers are small and sub is on, then your Oppo is probably fine; I don't know what x-over point they use. It isn't a problem really, only that players often have more simplistic bass management which works for some, not all configurations and most receivers these days have "better" or rather more flexible bass management than the typical player, even fairly expensive ones.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I love the sound of the (single drawer) Denon CD/DVD player I have now, and it works flawlessly. I tried one of their changers, however, and while it sounded great when it worked, I had serious mechanical issues with it (refusing to read certain discs that other players have no problem with, discs slipping out of their wells and getting stuck in the tray.) It was bad enough that I returned it.

 

[Aburtch]

Thanks for the input Joe, I had heard about mechanical problems with changers, but many people have said that going with a higher-end brand like Rotel would eliminate that.

I have mechanical problems with my current 5-disc Harmon/Kardon which is why I'm looking for a new one.

 

[Seth=L]

Aburtch, what speakers are you going to be using in conjunction with the RX-V659? The Yamaha has very nice DACs made by Burr Brown. I wouldn't be surprised if little difference could be heard between the DACs in newer equipment such as those. Also, I would bet that the Yamaha RX-V659 converts all inputs to digital via A/D converters so that it can employ bass management and other post processing such as Dolby Pro Logic IIx, so getting a high end CD player for a receiver that does this is a moot point, IMO.

 

[obscbyclouds]

If the speakers are small and sub is on, then your Oppo is probably fine; I don't know what x-over point they use. It isn't a problem really, only that players often have more simplistic bass management which works for some, not all configurations and most receivers these days have "better" or rather more flexible bass management than the typical player, even fairly expensive ones.

I had this question to, and the email respone from Oppo indicated that Oppo uses a fixed 80 Hz crossover for all channels. In other words with the speakers all set to small in the setup menu, anything below 80 Hz will be sent to the sub. Speakers set to large will get the full range signal. But J_Garcia is definately correct, it is a simplistic bass management scheme compared to what many mid and hi level recievers will do (adjustable crossovers, etc.).

 

[Aburtch]

Aburtch, what speakers are you going to be using in conjunction with the RX-V659?

Right now I'm only running a pair of Cerwin-Vega AT-8's (circa 1988) so I'm just using the two-channel stereo setting. In the future I plan to upgrade to full surround, most likely using all B&W speakers.

 

[supervij]

Thanks, j and obscbyclouds, for your help.

cheers,
supervij

 

[Seth=L]

Right now I'm only running a pair of Cerwin-Vega AT-8's (circa 1988) so I'm just using the two-channel stereo setting. In the future I plan to upgrade to full surround, most likely using all B&W speakers.

The same goes for what I said before, I wouldn't think the Yamaha RX-V659receiver would be any different from any other modern receiver, digitizing the signal makes the DACs in a high end CD player a moot point.

Cerwin Vega makes loudspeakers, they don't reveal details like B&W. You could use a generic CD player and likely not notice much if any difference on the setup described.

 

[Aburtch]

I would bet that the Yamaha RX-V659 converts all inputs to digital via A/D converters so that it can employ bass management and other post processing such as Dolby Pro Logic IIx, so getting a high end CD player for a receiver that does this is a moot point, IMO.

I wrote to Yamaha customer service directly and asked them about it and this was their reply:

"Well an analog signal is converted to digital and then it is output analog to all the speakers. 2 Channel stereo processes the signal into a 2 channel stereo signal. If you want to output the signal untouched you can use Pure Direct."

So it looks like you are correct in that the receiver is reconverting the analog input back to digital. Combine that with my "loudspeakers" and it looks like I'll be getting a regular CD player until I upgrade the speakers.