Comments on Paradigm Cinema series as an upgrade/replacement?

[Shane]

I am considering an upgrade on my front and center speakers... I'm currently looking at the Paradigm Cinema 110 or something else in that line.

Has anyone had any experience with these?
Or any comments on this selection?

Btw I'm returning the Bose AM16 that I purchased a few weeks back. To help me make this decision I purchased 2 Cinema 90 speakers and the PDR10 Sub and listened to a variety of music on two channel going back and forth.

 

[einsteinjb]

I checked out the two lowest end Cinema packages a while back just for kicks, I think they were the 70 something and 90? I wouldn't say they were awful or anything like that, but I wasn't very impressed by them for the price, especially the 70s, but they really weren't in the class I was looking at. I was mainly curious.

I will say that returning the Bose system was a GREAT idea, as a quick search of this forum or any other audio/HT forum for the word "Bose" will QUICKLY inform you.

What's the price range/budget you're looking at spending? I'm sure folks here can suggest quite a few alternatives that might sound better to you for the same price. Generally you're better off with good bookshelf speakers and a good sub rather than a packaged HTiB system, even one by Paradigm.

 

[John D]

Would recommend bookshelves

I had a look through the Paradigm website at the speakers you were considering.

The main problem I could see with this selection is that the frequency response of the Cinema 110's is 120Hz to 20Khz (+/-2dB). In order to get all the frequency range from the subwoofer to the tweeters, you will need to set the crossover of the sub fairly high. The problem with setting the sub so high is that you will be able to tell exactly where it is (which you are not really supposed to, if it is set up properly). The sub needs to be set to around 80Hz or lower to not be able to locate it.

When I upgraded at Christmas, I picked up the Polk Audio RM6005 system (Satellites and center had 3" midrange drivers (and 1/2" tweeters) with a frequency response up around 150Hz to 20KHz or so. Also came with PSW10 sub). I was not pleased with the satellite and center speakers, so I had them replaced with bookshelves and a better center within a few weeks. The speakers I got were the Paradigm Titans (freq response of 60Hz to 20KHz) and CC-170 (response of 70Hz to 20KHz). With this setup, I could set my crossover at 80Hz and not be able to localize the sub, but also wouldn't have the frequency response "hole" between 80Hz and 150Hz. I was much happier with this setup.

I would recommend trying to get a set of bookshelf speakers and a better center (better simply meaning one that has a lower frequecy response). See if the dealer will let you audition them at your house, so you can compare them to the Cinema Series speakers. Then, once you decide which ones you like the most, you can bring the others back, assuming can return them.

Hope this helps you more than it confuses you.

 

[Shane]

einsteinjb & JohnD - Thanks for replying

I'm glad I returned the Bose system too. The only part of that system I liked the sound from was the "sub".

I wanted to spend somewhere in the order of $1000 to $1500 for the complete surround sound speakers/sub - including what I already spent on the sub and bookshelf speakers (but can return if needed - see below). I can go higher, which I'm happy to do for the right equipment, but will just have to acquire it in piece-meal throughout the year. Btw this system would be used for surround sound more than stereo listening - but looking for it to be dual purpose.

I'm also in a bit of a time crunch, as I'm hosting a significant reception/cocktail party in my home in about 10 days and need to have something in place for background music at least.

Feel free to suggest an alternative in the same price range, or slightly higher if I will be able to "hear" the difference.

JohnD - Yes you are helping, not confusing.
Funny you should point this out...
I'm a newbie in the audio world and don't really understand freq response/range,crossover, etc very well. But I'm having trouble getting the correct amount of base. I have experimented with different cross-over settings and found that I have to turn it up really high, but just as you say the sub is very noticeable now. At the moment I have the recv set to the max (200).

JohnD - If I go with Paradigm - which model would you suggest that I demo for front and center?

I should probably list my other equipment:

• Yamaha HTR-5990 7.1 Receiver -120W min RMS x7
• Yamaha DVD-C750 DVD/SACD (less than 30 days old and very happy with)
• Paradigm Cinema 90 bookshelf speakers (less than 30 days old - most likely will exchange, but for what? - or keep for surround sound speakers)
• Paradigm PDR Sub (less than 30 days old - so far happy with and planning on keeping)
• Paradigm CS-150 in-wall speakers (less than 30 days old - plan to install in dining room for background music)
• Bose AM4, Bose Model 100 (old speakers)

Your comments and suggestion are very much appreciated.

 

[Nick250]

einsteinjb & JohnD - Thanks for replying

But I'm having trouble getting the correct amount of base. I have experimented with different cross-over settings and found that I have to turn it up really high, but just as you say the sub is very noticeable now. At the moment I have the recv set to the max (200).

FWIW When a sub is properly set up for music you do not really "hear" it. And maybe that is part of your setup head ache. With music you only would notice the sub by it's absence. The sound will be less full, less rich have less foundation. If you can locate the sub during music, it's turned up too high. If you are new to audio systems with subs that need to be manually integrated with the rest of the speakers there is a bit of a learning curve.

Regards, Nick

 

[John D]

einsteinjb & JohnD - Thanks for replying

I'm glad I returned the Bose system too. The only part of that system I liked the sound from was the "sub".

I wanted to spend somewhere in the order of $1000 to $1500 for the complete surround sound speakers/sub - including what I already spent on the sub and bookshelf speakers (but can return if needed - see below). I can go higher, which I'm happy to do for the right equipment, but will just have to acquire it in piece-meal throughout the year. Btw this system would be used for surround sound more than stereo listening - but looking for it to be dual purpose.

I'm also in a bit of a time crunch, as I'm hosting a significant reception/cocktail party in my home in about 10 days and need to have something in place for background music at least.

Feel free to suggest an alternative in the same price range, or slightly higher if I will be able to "hear" the difference.

JohnD - Yes you are helping, not confusing.
Funny you should point this out...
I'm a newbie in the audio world and don't really understand freq response/range,crossover, etc very well. But I'm having trouble getting the correct amount of base. I have experimented with different cross-over settings and found that I have to turn it up really high, but just as you say the sub is very noticeable now. At the moment I have the recv set to the max (200).

JohnD - If I go with Paradigm - which model would you suggest that I demo for front and center?

I should probably list my other equipment:

• Yamaha HTR-5990 7.1 Receiver -120W min RMS x7
• Yamaha DVD-C750 DVD/SACD (less than 30 days old and very happy with)
• Paradigm Cinema 90 bookshelf speakers (less than 30 days old - most likely will exchange, but for what? - or keep for surround sound speakers)
• Paradigm PDR Sub (less than 30 days old - so far happy with and planning on keeping)
• Paradigm CS-150 in-wall speakers (less than 30 days old - plan to install in dining room for background music)
• Bose AM4, Bose Model 100 (old speakers)

Your comments and suggestion are very much appreciated.

Shane,
I don't really have any particular models that I could recommend, mainly because I didn't audition any speakers (other than the ones I bought (Titans)-- which were on sale ($200 CDN per pair) and price was my main concern). They sounded OK to me and the price was good, plus the GF wanted smaller speakers than the Mach Ones I've had for 10 years. I know that the dealer where I purchased the speakers had a pamphlet that had different speaker systems and the prices for each, so this may be a good place to start if you are interested in Paradigm speakers. If you buy a full package, then you should be almost guaranteed to get them timbre matched and they should sound good together. It's only a matter of getting the set that you can afford and sound good to you. I think the most important piece of advice for picking speakers, which is ALWAYS re-iterated here is to LISTEN to as many as you can in your price range and pick which ones sound best to YOU! For example, you may hear a set of $800 to $1000 speakers that sound better to you than a set of $1500 speakers.

I can offer a few suggestions as to some things to consider when looking for speakers and setting them up.

First, turn the crossover down on that sub! I think most will agree that 200Hz is too high of a crossover. I wouldn't set any sub over 100Hz and would try my best to keep it at 80 or less. This way, you (or others) will have a harder time of locating the sub. If you find that you have to turn up the crossover or the volume before you get any decent bass, then try moving the sub closer to a corner. Moving the sub just a few inches (or feet) can make loads of difference in the sound. You may have to move it several times and adjust the volume to tweak it to where you like it. If that don't work and you still don't have enough bass, then you may need to consider getting a larger, more powerful sub. I don't have any experience with the PDR, so others may be able to comment on the quality of this sub. One thing to make sure on the sub is that if you are using the receiver crossover, then you need to bypass the sub crossover (by either turning it all the way up or setting it to 'bypass' if it has such a setting). You may already have this done, but it won't hurt to mention it anyway. Also make sure you have all your other speakers set to 'small'.

If you are in a hurry to get something, then one thing to consider is to buy a set of speakers (something that you think you may like) and get them set up. Listen to them for a while and have your party. If you don't like them, then most places have a decent return policy. You will have to make sure you can return them within a certain amount of time (usually 30 days) to get a refund or exchange. A full refund policy would be better because that way, you are not limited to speakers that are only at that particular store. I would say that this may frowned upon (getting speakers for party, then returning them), but many people here say to audition speakers at home if possible, so this is not much of a variation from that.

I noticed that you have a SACD player. If you listen to many SACD's, then I think you should consider getting the same model of speakers (ie: 3 pairs of the same bookshelf -- if you go that way), because you don't want tonal differences from different size speakers. The center speaker should be very closely matched to the others as well -- same woofer and tweeter if possible. This may be too expensive to do at one time, so you may be able to get a set or two for 5.1 surround and then get the other speakers later.
My setup is 5.1 and consists of Titans for mains and surrounds, and the CC-170 for the center. I now realize that the CC-270 would probably have been the better choice for the center because it had the same 6.5" woofers as the Titans, but the frequency response was about the same on both (according to the specs), so I am making my self believe that there wouldn't have been much of a difference (Note to others -- please don't comment on the 270 being significantly better. My Upgraditis is under control now, and I don't need it flaming up on me!)

Anyway, this post is getting too long (I sometimes tend to babble a bit), so I will leave it at that. Hopefully it is of some help and if there are any blatent errors, others can feel free to let me know. When/if you have more quesitions, fire away. I'm sure that the group here wants you to get the setup that you like for as little as possible.

 

[Kai]

I tried out the Paradigm Cinema series and thought they were not bad. I felt I did better by purchasing a pair of Paradigm Titans for my fronts and Atoms for my surrounds. I am using a Klipsch Center and 10" Sub. I hope to replace the center with the Paradigm CC170 but no real hurry as the Klipsch has a decent timbre and matches the Paradigm rather well.

If you have a bit extra cash you should listen to the Paradigm Mini-Monitors, they have a great sound.

I paid $220 for the Titans and $200 for the Atoms.

It does also depend on your listening "intent" now and in the future. For general tv viewing and soft to moderate music listening levels the Cinema Series will serve you well but you have some very nice components and these speakers will not live up to them in my opinion.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.

 

[brendy]

I'm a newbie in the audio world and don't really understand freq response/range,crossover, etc very well. But I'm having trouble getting the correct amount of base. I have experimented with different cross-over settings and found that I have to turn it up really high, but just as you say the sub is very noticeable now. At the moment I have the recv set to the max (200).

I have the Infinity TSS-750,which is like the Cinema 110.These matched systems can provide good sound.Since they require a high crossover,mine is 120 hz,it is important to located the sub close to the front satellites.I agree that the Atoms or Titans would be an excellent choice ( I used to own Titans ).

 

[Shane]

After a number of visits to the stores in my area... I was impressed with the titans, but due to size constraints I decided to go with the Paradigm 220 for L/R and 330 for Center.

Most likely I will end up with a pair of Titans for listening in another room.

Any comments on my choice?

 

[Johnd]

It sounds as though you were deliberate Shane, by auditioning the speakers (and perhaps, comparing to others?). You selected them with your own ears (and pocketbook), so that makes it a good choice. Happy listening.

 

[John D]

I agree

It sounds as though you were deliberate Shane, by auditioning the speakers (and perhaps, comparing to others?). You selected them with your own ears (and pocketbook), so that makes it a good choice. Happy listening.

I agree with Johnd. You spent the time to go listen to what you could and made a decision on what fit and sounded good at a price you could afford. You really can't get any better than that! Now, go enjoy!