COMCAST Debate

[Unregistered]

My friend recently moved and she asked me to hook up her A/V system back up. I am fairly knowledgeable and had no difficulties. However, when I got to her Cable box I was schocked to see that it has RCA outs for video (Yellow) and for audio (red and white) only, She pays close to $100 a month for DIGITAL cable.

As far as I know you cannot see a digital pic or hear dig sound through these type of connections. She has a receiver that gives her sorround sound but obviously it will never work with these types of connections. I believe at the very least the box should come with S-Video and optical or coaxial digital out for sound. I called the cable company and they advised me that they had no idea of what I was saying. They told me a tech would call back to explain to me what digital cable means. I am still waiting for the call.

My friend, of course, went through the roof as she has shelled out serious cash over the years to just now find out what was going on. I need an opinion of my assessment. I would also greatly appreciate any websites that can legally define digital cable and the connections necessary to send and receive a digital signal. Her TV is HDTV capable and has component, s-video, RCA, and coaxial inputs, I believe the last 2 are analog only.

Thanks in advance

Contoso

 

[Dan]

My comcast cable box has digital and optical out as well as IEEE1394, component and S video out. It also has composite in for a VCR. It also has USB in and out. It is from Motorola but has no visible model name or number.

It does have a TIVO like recorder. Unfortunately the hard drive makes an annoying whine (two different boxes have done this). Does anyone have a quiet DVR cable box. I may get rid of it and save ten bucks a month.

 

[Unregistered]

Let me guess, Comcast Cable in South Florida?

I had the EXACT same experience with them when I visited my family there. They are absolutely clueless.

It's ironic that you were told that one of their techs would call you back and 'explain' digital cable to you. I'm sure you're still waiting for your call, huh? When I told the installer that we needed a box with at least digital audio out (coax or optical, either would work for their system) and that the box he had would not allow us to get digital audio, he said 'Do you even know what digital is?'

Well, let me see. Masters degree in Computer Science, avid A/V fan for all my life, experience with digital audio editing, etc - I think I have a pretty good idea what digital is all about. This moron was arrogant and talking down to me when he was clearly ignorant and had absolutely NO CLUE what he was talking about.

We called and called and never could find anyone with even a basic understanding of the technology that is available. None of them could even tell us what brand or model number of cable boxes they use. You see they think because the cable box can decode digital signals, that is sufficient. Don't even bother trying to explain to them that once the box decodes the digital signal it is converted to analog and the receiver receives an analog signal. Goodbye Dolby Digital and now all we have is a 2 channel analog signal for the receiver to convert back to 5.1 using a processing mode like DPL II. Not quite the same and the cool features like 'Late Night' (compression) and 'Cinema Filter' can't be used.

After many more calls (and days...) they tell us they might have a box with digital audio out and are sending another installer. He arrives with the SAME BOX! Of course, he tells me that all we need is a 'digital audio cable' to get digital audio out of the box. When I try to show him that there is no digital audio out on the box, he still tries to assure me that it will work - 'we've been using this box for years'. I said if they've been using that box for years then they do not offer true digital cable and are doing their customers a great disservice. But no, he knows how it works and I am wrong.

Not only do I know how it all works technically, and it sounds like you do too, I have experience with actually using it. I have Time Warner Cable and they are phenomenal. Even the basic customer support reps (like Level 1 service) can tell you what you need, how to hook it up, brand and model of the available boxes, etc. They at least have a basic understanding of the technology they are responsible for.

One final thing that really ticked me off. I'm speaking to one of the customer service people and she is telling me how they 'program' your tv to work with the cable box (utter b.s. as you know because the tv doesn't 'talk' to the cable box at all). I try desperately to get her to transfer me to ANYONE with even a basic knowledge of the subject. She tells me, like you, that a tech will call me. But in signing off, she has the nerve to say, 'If you have a computer have you considered our high-speed internet service'? Yeah, right. Like we really want to use Comcast for something even more complicated than simple digital cable!


Sorry for the long rant, but I feel your pain. If only we could get actual competition for cable services, Comcast (at least in South FL) would be out of business in no time.

 

[docferdie]

digital cable means that the signal broadcast over the cable line is in digital form. program content is compressed via MPEG2, multiplexed, and then broadcast through the cable box. Contrast this to standard analog cable where the signal does not undergo any form of compression. As applied the only real advantage of digital cable is the increased number of channels that can occupy a fixed bandwidth.
An analogy would be video CD, VHS, and DVD. VHS is analog while DVD and video CD are digital however I think most people would agree that DVD is better than VHS which in turn gives a better picture than video CD. DVDs have a resolution of 720x480 and a bitrate of about 5 megabits per second, VHS has an effective resolution of 342x480 with actual quality determined by tape speed, and video CD has a resolution of 352x240 and a bitrate of 1 megabit per second.
Just as a DVD player can be hooked up via DVI, component, S-video, RCA, RF, so can a "digital cable box". The better cable companies offer all these connections but are not required to do so to fulfill their lable of "digital cable"
Cable companies should be required to post their resolution and bit rates.

 

[Unregistered]

As applied the only real advantage of digital cable is the increased number of channels that can occupy a fixed bandwidth.

Disagree. The real advantage of digital cable is that you can get DIGITAL audio and VIDEO. There are alot of analog TVs still in existence so maybe the digital video is not as important, but digital audio is paramount. Once the box converts its digital stream to analog all advantages are gone if you are using a digital receiver.

Just as a DVD player can be hooked up via DVI, component, S-video, RCA, RF, so can a "digital cable box". The better cable companies offer all these connections but are not required to do so to fulfill their lable of "digital cable"

The point is that Comcast uses the lowest possible box available. The box they use came out in 2000 and thus they are WAY behind the technology curve. It doesn't offer DVI, Component, or even S-Video. The audio is Analog only (after the box decodes the digital signal of course). Regardless, the Comcast reps we have dealt with know absolutely nothing about the technology. Maybe you should send them that description you just gave of the differences. They need to learn a thing or two.

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks for all the responses. I actually do live in So Florida and I went through the roof when someone could guess where I was from. That tells me that the bastards at COMCAST are **** down here!!!! I am telling my friend to cancel her subscription and she is going with DISH immediately. I too have a Masters in Computer Science and i tried to explain it to their tech about digital signals but he told me that as long as i could see more channels it was digital. I tried to tell him about compression and all that but I quickly realized that I was wasting my breath. It is so frustrating to deal with incompetence!!!!!

Contoso

 

[JoeE SP9]

Comcast

I live in Phila. the home of COMCAST. The ignorance and arrogance that comes from them caused me to give up cable several years ago. At that time I called to complain about the lack of stereo and I was given a line of nonsense by 3 different service techs that came to my house. Twice I was told that there is no such thing as stereo television. Once I was told that broadcast TV has stereo but cable has synthesized stereo. The service manager corrected the problem after a visit to my home. I cancelled the service shortly after. I have been using a dish since. Satellite TV is cheaper and the service people are at least semi-knowledgable.

 

[Unregistered]

Disagree. The real advantage of digital cable is that you can get DIGITAL audio and VIDEO. There are alot of analog TVs still in existence so maybe the digital video is not as important, but digital audio is paramount. Once the box converts its digital stream to analog all advantages are gone if you are using a digital receiver.

Actually, you're wrong. Digital cable is just that...digital ALONG THE CABLE. There are some options to get digital audio signals, but video is ALWAYS analog, no matter what connection are used UNLESS USING DVI, VGA, or HDMI (which are normally used only for HDTV connections). Component, S-Video, RCA, RF are all analog, regardless of the digital/analog nature of the source.

 

[JohnA]

The FINAL Answer

OK are you all ready for this?! Is is direct from the National Cable & Telecommunications Association

http://www.ncta.com/Docs/PageContent.cfm?pageID=91

"What is Digital Cable? With digital cable, cable operators are able to offer greater choice and quality than is possible with analog television. Cable operators use digital technology to compress video signals, allowing more than one program service to be carried in the bandwidth space normally required for one analog program service. Typically, the signal is sent to the home and decompressed in the set-top box for display on the television.

Digital cable can provide a host of new services, such as video-on-demand, interactive television and commercial-free CD-quality music (Not DIGITAL ). Digital television also allows cable operators and program networks to offer high-definition television (HDTV), which offers a movie theater-like viewing experience, complete with Dolby® Digital sound and a resolution of either 1,280 or 1,920 active horizontal pixels by 720 or 1,080 active scanning lines respectively.

Cable networks – including Bravo, Comcast SportsNet, Discovery, ESPN, HBO, MSG Network, Showtime, and STARZ! – are investing substantial sums to produce and convert programming to new high-definition resolution (HDTV) formats. Other programmers such as MTV Networks, Discovery Communications, A&E Television Networks, and The International Channel are taking advantage of digital technology to offer more channels of specialized programming.

What is the difference between "digital cable" and "HDTV"?
For today's digital cable programming, digital set-top boxes translate the digital signals for display on conventional analog television sets . In contrast, HDTV has a much higher level of resolution and must be received on a DTV set capable of displaying HD.

What does Digital Cable mean to the Consumer?
More cable networks such as Discovery Science, Discovery Kids, Noggin, Nickelodeon Games & Sports, VH1 Country, the Biography Channel, and more!
More screens of commercial-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime and STARZ!; More channels of pay-per-view, which allows consumers to "rent" movies from their own homes; More channels of CD-quality music of all genres from jazz to country, classic to rock; Interactive program guides that allow consumers to choose shows by time, category or channel; and Parental control features that allow parents to block out shows they don't want their children to see.Digital cable packages vary among cable systems, so not all services listed above may be available through your cable operator.

Cable companies are using their upgraded broadband networks to offer a wide array of new digital services in order to increase customer satisfaction and to meet the competition posed by DBS, wireless cable, broadcasters, overbuilders and telephone companies.

As of April 2004, more than 30% of US cable customers - approximately 22.9 million - received digital cable service. Digital cable offers extended channel offerings, and CD-quality, commercial-free music. Cable companies receive digital programming directly from cable program networks or from Comcast's Digital Media Center via Headend in the Sky (HITS). Cable networks continue to announce plans for a wide array of new digital and HDTV programming services."


So....what does this say.....it says that digital cable is a compressed format to allow for more chanels and features For today's digital cable programming, digital set-top boxes translate the digital signals for display on conventional analog television sets . , it offers "CD-quality" music (what ever that means) and other "features" like PPV, etc....

There you have it folks, right from the National Cable & Telecommunications Association own mouth!!!

 

[Unregistered]

Actually, you're wrong. Digital cable is just that...digital ALONG THE CABLE. There are some options to get digital audio signals, but video is ALWAYS analog, no matter what connection are used UNLESS USING DVI, VGA, or HDMI (which are normally used only for HDTV connections). Component, S-Video, RCA, RF are all analog, regardless of the digital/analog nature of the source.

Love your logic. That's like saying all the numbers from 1-10 are even except 1,3,5,7 and 9.

Just like the audio, some of the channels are analog video. The ones that are digital are transmitted using mpeg-2. If you are viewing an analog video feed, it will be sent directly to the tv if you use an analog cable (composite, s-video, or component). If it is digital, it will remain digital only if you use DVI or HDMI. If it arrives digital and you use analog cables, the box will convert from analog to digital. So NO, the video is not always analog.

The point is that if you have a digital feed, either for audio or video, you want to be able to get that digital feed out of the box and to your other components digitally. With the cheap boxes used by Comcast, you can't do that. The box itself does the decoding from mpeg2 video to analog. Likewise for audio, the box decodes dolby digital to analog. With the comcast boxes, you can't get digital audio or video our of the box, period.

 

[Karp]

....The point is that if you have a digital feed, either for audio or video, you want to be able to get that digital feed out of the box and to your other components digitally. With the cheap boxes used by Comcast, you can't do that. The box itself does the decoding from mpeg2 video to analog. Likewise for audio, the box decodes dolby digital to analog. With the comcast boxes, you can't get digital audio or video our of the box, period.

I have digital cable. I had it a few years ago and was not impressed with it at all, however Comcast has made some improvements in the last two years in my area. They will give you a "special" box for the same price as a "regular" digital box if you have a HDTV and request a HD cable box. I have it hooked up to my Dennon 2805 with a coaxial audio cable and component video only. While some of my (lower) channels are still analog, the upper channels from 15 to 900 are all digital. (No, I do not get 900 channels - It skips 10 or 20 channels for each 100 and there are no channels in the 800's at all). I get DD 5.1 on some of my channels (HBO, Discovery, Comcast Sports Net, ESPN HD ect..) and get pro-logic on most of the other channels.

I have some friends who do not have a HDTV who also have Digital cable. The cable boxes they get do not have component video out (which is understandable) or digital audio out (which sucks). I don't understand why Comcast doesn't give them the same box I have, since it has Svideo out as well as component out. As it stands, the only advantages they have are more channels and that they won't get interference on the digital channels during thunderstorms ect.

 

[Unregistered]

I had the same grief in Seattle until I requested a box with an optical out and at least an S video and they actually had it.The programs that are in 5.1 come out sounding great in digital as my amp kicks it into ex mode. God only knows what will haoppen when I upgrade to HD Probably I will go to satellite.

 

[zipper]

I live north of Seattle & gave up on cbl years ago when Viacom became AT&T(now Comcast).They change the name every few years but nothing else changes.I tried them again a couple years ago but 5 min after the tech left the picture went blank.Called immediately & they said the tech would come back & fix it.He never did.I called them back & told them to cancel my service & to come get the box.They ask me to return it at one of their service centers.I told them it would be on my porch & that I would assume no responsibility for it after I left for work the next morning.I've had Directv for the last 5 years & have had no problems whatsoever.It does irk me that many movies are not broadcast in DD but I guess it's the same on dig cbl.
I have a friend that I just helped put together a HT/stereo system complete with a HD DLP tv.He was going to wait on ordering HD cbl but when I showed him that he couldn't get DD through his existing dig cbl box,he called about getting another.They told him he couldn't get a box with a dig output unless he upgraded to HD.As a side note,the local chans on his dig cbl were actually in analog.All the locals have gone to HD so comcast wouldn't pass it through their normal dig box.So he upgraded,was happy briefly,then called me because he couldn't get any sound out of the receiver when sourced to the tv.The tech had removed the other rca cbls he had hooked up to the old box,plugged in their white compon. vid. cbl to the new box,& left everything else hanging w/o saying a word.I was able to talk him thru hooking up a digcoax(he's very green) & things were cool.Except now he gets delayed audio,or echo,on 1 or 2 local chans along with some fractioning of the picture.All this for the cool price of about $90/month.Unbelieveable.

Yes,everything is digital up to the box.Somewhere it eventually gets returned to analog,audio & video.For best audio(& the only way to get DDsurround) it needs to be fed digital all the way to the receiver.Can't do it with rca plugs from the cbl box.The video is analog coming out of the box,but the best picture is achieved with a component video cbl.Next best would be a s-video cbl.Or,in the case that you have a HDTV with a tuner in it,then,yes,you could get dig all the way to the tv.But as karp stated,none of the comcast boxes offer that feature.