Class A for low volume listening?

[Bevan]

I read mention in an Caymin amp review that class A amps are better for low level listening.

Can anyone bear this out?

I have some Dynaudio 52's which are probably not the best in this department and do most of my listening very late at night in an appartment.

What class A integrated amps are there for <$1500??

cheers

bevan

 

[Doug917]

This is generaly true as Class A amps are one of the least efficient, meaning you put a lot of power in and do not get as much out as you would with class A/B, H, etc. Class A amps should also keep the distortion of an analog signal to a minimum, while other classes increase the amount of distortion. Being that you lose a lot of what you put into a Class A amp, you can't use it to drive speakers to as loud of levels as a Class H amp (This is assuming you put 100 watts into a Class A amp). If both the Class A and Class H amp are rated at 100 watts per channel, they will produce the same levle of volume, all things being equal, but you will have to put more power into the Class A amp to acheive the same amount of wattage per channel. I have used both classes of amps and with analog signals, there can be a big difference in sound, but once you get into the digital realm, the huge differences start disappearing quickly. What is the rest of your setup, so I can answer the rest of your questions.

 

[Yamahaluver]

Class A amps do equally good job at high level too due to their linear, non switching nature of power delivery, they dont get the edginess apparent class AB amps when they are pushed hard.

 

[Bevan]

thanks guys

doug, i have a denon 2200 universal at the front end.

what do you mean digital? are you talking about class A multichannel processors and the like?

i've only ever used the alalogue connections, into a nad 352 at present.

any sugestions under $1500 new or used?

i do like to go loud occasionally, but the main reason for me looking into the class A's is for low volume listening as i said.

thanks

bevan

 

[anamorphic96]

The Marantz PM7200 has 25 watts of Class A power, and 95 watts in class A/B. All with the push of one button. It retails for 499 and supposedly sounds pretty darn good.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I read mention in an Caymin amp review that class A amps are better for low level listening.

Can anyone bear this out?

I have some Dynaudio 52's which are probably not the best in this department and do most of my listening very late at night in an appartment.

What class A integrated amps are there for <$1500??

cheers

bevan

Yet another audio mythology that will not die. The distortion of either class amp are so low today, or yesterdays, that it is below the threshold of detection, plain and simple.

 

[MBauer]

Class A Amp

Electronically a class A amplifier is on all the time (at zero volts), even with no signal being input, so it may or not impact distortion. The impact is from the quality of the circuitry, components and design, not the type of amplifier. Class A Amps, being on all the time, theoretically have a better transient reponse time and faster switching time, again from being on all the time.

The drawback is generally more power consumption, higher heat, higher cost and less output. Output is limited due to the capabilites of the components and power availability. Classes of amplifiers are determiend by design and can be tubes, combinations of solid state and tubes and solid state.

 

[leo36pk]

volume on yamaha DSP AX-2

Hi everyone, I ma new to this forum. So can anyone help me understand why the volume level on my Yamaha DSP-AX2 wont go above 1db..it starts off from -99 db and closes at 1db...shouldnt it go higher or is it like that? my setup is as follows..Panasonic JX-10 DVD....Yamaha DSP-AX2 receiver....Paradigm Monitor 7v.3..(Front) Paradigm CC270(center) BOSE AM3 (surround)...and BIC RTR sub-woofer...
The system sound great though on movies
Thanx Saad

 

[conchyjoe]

Class A and AB

My Parasound HCA-2205A power amp is rated to deliver pure class A up to 25wpc, then switches to class AB where it will deliver 220 wpc X 5 into 8 ohms and 380 wpc X 5 into 4 ohms as well as 60 amperes of peak current per channel. As you can imagine, there are some prices to be paid. It draws 1600 watts, weighs 89lbs and is covered (literally) in heat sinks.
However, point being, yes you can hear the difference in pure class A at low levels, and yes you can find a used 2205A (designed BTW by the legendary John Curl) on Audiogon for less than half it's new $2,500.00 price. Does it sound good? Ahhhhhh does it ever!!!
Cheers and good listening

 

[j_garcia]

I have the PM7200 and I use it for primarily low level listening. It has a switch that allows you to run it in pure class A operation, or the same as conchyjoe noted for the 2205-A, where the first 25w are class A and A-B after that. At low to average listening levels, there isn't much difference with it in A/A-B mode vs pure class A, but it's clear that there is a difference in levels when going from A to A-B. The dual monoblock design is nice too; essentially two separate amp sections with a shared power supply. I noticed an improvement in sound quality the first time I fired it up compared to my previous PM-7000.

The only downside of class A operation may be that the inefficiency is translated directly into heat, but it does sound great. This is mentioned in the manual, and this guy does get hot, but it's not too bad in A-B mode and the manual says the heat is normal for class A operation (heat is a byproduct of amplification and class A is the least efficient method). I'm quite happy with it.

There's one on Audiogon right now for a pretty good price.

 

[tbewick]

According to the Bowers & Wilkins web site, a 'surprising' number of modern amplifiers still suffer from crossover distortion (which I don't believe can happen with class A designs). This distortion lends a clinical or harsh quality to the sound, which some people may prefer. If this is correct, then it might be worth getting a class A amplifier.

 

[Reorx]

Hmm...is my Ashly amp class A and A-B?
It says "Class-A Full Complementary Front End" in the features.
But the watts do get up fairly high, so I'm thinking it might be similar to j_garcia's PM7200.

Reorx

 

[mtrycrafts]

According to the Bowers & Wilkins web site, a 'surprising' number of modern amplifiers still suffer from crossover distortion (which I don't believe can happen with class A designs). This distortion lends a clinical or harsh quality to the sound, which some people may prefer. If this is correct, then it might be worth getting a class A amplifier.

Here you go, some light reading

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm

 

[tbewick]

Thanks mtrycrafts for the link, which I'll try and get round to reading sometime.

I am confused by this amplifier argument, anyway, because I have spoken to a person who designed amplifiers and he seemed to think that getting a good one was important. He described my Denon amplifier as 'not so good for music as it is for film'. Subjectively, I haven't noticed any difference between all the class A-B amps I've used. The most difference noticed is when I swap round for a different pair of speakers. I haven't actually used any class A amps so I can't comment on their sound quality. I normally go along with the idea of system matching, which is quite easy to do.

On the original question, I'd recommend, as an alternative suggestion, to boost the bass (100Hz +4 dB or so) and the treble (10 kHz +2 dB, less so) at low volumes for a more pleasant sound.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks mtrycrafts for the link, which I'll try and get round to reading sometime.

I am confused by this amplifier argument, anyway, because I have spoken to a person who designed amplifiers and he seemed to think that getting a good one was important. He described my Denon amplifier as 'not so good for music as it is for film'. Subjectively, I haven't noticed any difference between all the class A-B amps I've used. The most difference noticed is when I swap round for a different pair of speakers. I haven't actually used any class A amps so I can't comment on their sound quality. I normally go along with the idea of system matching, which is quite easy to do.

On the original question, I'd recommend, as an alternative suggestion, to boost the bass (100Hz +4 dB or so) and the treble (10 kHz +2 dB, less so) at low volumes for a more pleasant sound.

Ask your friend why your unit is not good for music but is fine for movies I am curious to read his response.

Before you do, call up Chris Russell, chief amp designer, at Bryston and ask him that question. He is a very helpful person about questions, even if you don't own his products. Tell him you learned about his 'white hat' status in the Audio Critic and this discussin was on the net.
I don't have his number, sorry

 

[acoustic]

You get more distortion in your recodings.....

Yet another audio mythology that will not die. The distortion of either class amp are so low today, or yesterdays, that it is below the threshold of detection, plain and simple.

Than you do from an amp. If you are listening to any recording with elecric guitar you are listening to distortion and this will burn your ears worse than any amp will. You can't make junk recordings any better with good equipment in fact it usually just makes it worse because it actually makes good stuff better but bad stuff worse. What is it that most guitar effects, amps, pedals, & processors do ? They make distortion mostly. Even acoustic artists like John Mayer are "plugging in" their acoustic instruments in the studio to add efects. In general recording terms plugging in any acoustic instrument is a big NO NO but they do it so teeny bopers buy it. Good recordings mirror the audiphole mentality. Start with a very good room a large diaphram tube mic like a vintage Neumann and then run it through a good cable like a Mogami then to tube mic pre then to the board with NO effects on the fist pass. How do most pop rock groups do it? Plug in the guitar to the "signature sound stack" a stack of processors (creating distortion) then onto the board (processing should be done after it hits the tape with higher quality studio processors not tour quality crap)... If you want your system to sound better the easiest, and lest expensive, improvement is in your choice of recordings.. Class A will not help a Megadeath recording!!! How do I know all this? A friend of mine works at Gateway Mastering perhaps the best known mastering studio in the country owned by Bob Ludwig of Masterdisc fame. He is always complianing about the quality of the recordings they have to make sound good and how dificult it is when they don't lay down the tracks properly in the first place! They certainly work magic there but there are a lot of tapes that get sent back for a re-do.. Pick your recordings carefully!!

 

[JoeE SP9]

Hmm...is my Ashly amp class A and A-B?
It says "Class-A Full Complementary Front End" in the features.
But the watts do get up fairly high, so I'm thinking it might be similar to j_garcia's PM7200.

Reorx

It means that the input/driver stage on your amp runs in class A. Since the output stage is not mentioned the chances are very high to almost certain that the output stage is class AB. Class A at low or small wattages, switching over to class B as the output level is increased. Generally, amps that switch over to class B at higher outputs tend to run hotter.