Channel Separation, how important is it...??

[GDK933]

Hi All this is my 1st post here on Audioholics. I have been looking to upgrade my preamp. I currently have emotiva xps1 gen2..and minidsp SHD (shd as Dirac) looking to upgrade into 1 single unit that can do both dirac room correction and transparent preamp function with DAC functionality built it ...if possible as well...( although I do have a new RME ADI-2 DAC so this last feature is not super important since I have a great DAC( at least IMHO)
I ran across a new piece of kit by NAD the c658 . It seems to tick all the boxes and more....
Has great bluos streamer

Great DAC

Analog preamp capability

Dirac room correction built in

Great manufacturer

and its Hardware is Upgradable as well via NAD's modular slide in upgrade boards. So if the DAC Becomes Antiquated as time moves on, it can be swapped out
But...the channel separation is 80db....yikes!!!

I asked a question over at AudioAdviser ... the retail store... and they told me " channel separation is sufficient at 80db and they dont consider channel separation as a good marker/measurement of performance. I thought this was odd.. I think they're wrong.....or trying to get me to overlook this measurement, to make a sale.

I understand it as left and right channel material not being smeared ...staying where they each belong respectively and not bleeding into each other.

So my question, how important is channel separation and is my understanding of it not complete ...is 80db sufficient?

 

[slipperybidness]

DACs are a mature technology (a commodity item), I would not be concerned in the slightest of a modern DAC becoming antiquated.

I typically would see the spec quoted as "crosstalk", not channel separation, but it just depends on which direction you look at it.

I just did a quick google and browse, and I think this thread should provide some insight.

I think a key detail taken from this thread is to say.....if you had a signal on the left channel ONLY, then the same signal would be present on the RIGHT channel, but 80dB lower magnitude.

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/154795.html

 

[JerryLove]

So my question, how important is channel separation and is my understanding of it not complete ...is 80db sufficient?

If you play a blender at true volume out of one speaker, it will be as loud as pin drop out of the other.

 

[GDK933]

Thank you much. That does put it into perspective.

So I think I found a winner. The good thing is they let me do a 30-day in-home trial so if I don't like it I can always send it back for just the cost of return shipping .

My main reason for wanting to upgrade into one component handling everything instead of multiples is that I recently started streamlining my system... dumping excess equipment. I used to have a lynx Hilo handling Analog -Digital conversion from my phono preamp feeding into the mini DSP SHD to apply Dirac live and then from the mini DSP it was going musical Fidelity MX DAC via spdif and then from that DAC it would go into my emotiva preamp. I had too much stuff in the signal path!!! I understand that certain items one dedicated do perform better for example phono preamps and I do use an external phono preamp instead of the built-in phono stage in my emotiva and I get much better results. but I don't think this is always true for every piece of equipment.

Minidsp SHD AD/DA was measured over at audio science review and it can hold its own against RME's adi-2 Pro and within one or two decibels of a benchmark's dac3. When i wired everything straight into the minidsp ... I didn't notice any degradation in sound quality ... but at the same time no major improvements either ...the Dynamics were all there , high frequencies we're crystal clear and everything was solid . The only place I found small Improvement was the bass? The bass actually tightened up a little bit more and had a little more detail which I was kind of amazed and couldn't understand why . I also noticed a quieter background. Probably because I had two less power supplies to contend with in the signal path.... and not to mention the musical Fidelity DAC uses an SMPS wallwart .

So I sold both pieces and took that money and added a few dollars on top and put the money where I felt it would do the most good in terms of sound. I bought new speakers, Focal Kanta-3 . Boy that was a big jump in sound quality compared to my SVS premium Towers.

So I'm thinking maybe along the same lines I might take things one step further and upgrade the preamp into you something that can handle everything. And then sell off my emotiva and minidsp shd and sell my 2 amps ( psaudio stellar m700's ) and upgrade to PS audio BHK territory. Well that's the plan anyway I just have to save up the rest of the money I'll need for the amp, because I don't think I'm going to get anywhere near the price of a BHK by selling off a few pieces of used gear. ( and I have to convince the wife why I need to spend more $ on my already expensive system...LOL ..)

 

[Phase 2]

Very important, to the point some only use monoblock Amps.

 

[Verdinut]

In my opinion, crosstalk level between channels is not that important and has been used for marketing purposes.

In any recording, be it studio, stadium, concert hall or other venue, are the various microphones and instruments placed in isolated rooms to avoid crosstalk? It's obvious that part of the audio energy is acoustically transferred from the sound of one instrument to the microphone used for recording or amplifying other instruments in the same recording or concert space.
In an orchestra, sounds from the various instruments are acoustically intermixed and it is the combination of those mixed sounds that give good music its harmonic quality. IMO, trying to eliminate crosstalk is a waste of time and overkill.

 

[Verdinut]

When the first 2 channel stereo discs were released in the late 1950's, left and right channels were acoustically separated and we could actually hear that "Ping Pong Effect" from one speaker to the other.
Of course, that didn't sound natural and today's recordings don't reflect this effort to artificially separate the audio signal from one channel to the other.

 

[JerryLove]

Very important, to the point some only use monoblock Amps.

This really is not a valid position.

Crosstalk can and does occur long before the amp.
More to the point: crosstalk occurs *in the room*.

Unless you are using headphones, you will hear both speakers in both ears. Even if you could magically hear a -80db crosstalk in a real environment; it would be indistinguishable from sound simply bouncing off the cabinet from the primary source.

 

[Phase 2]

May not be, but it's one.

 

[lovinthehd]

Here is what Douglas Self had to say about crosstalk in an amplifier:

Interchannel crosstalk can obviously degrade stereo separation, but the effect is not detectable until it is worse than 20dB, which would be a very bad amplifier indeed