Changing crossover in Audyssey

[KEW]

I am trying to understand exactly how this works!

After setup with Audyssey, my speakers are set as small with XO at 60Hz.
I manually changed it to 80Hz.

Am I good to go?
Does Audyssey keep the measurement of the subs from 60-80Hz to use for EQ or is it now applying the EQ it previously measured for the mains and applying it to the subs?

Do I need to manually set the XO before running Audyssey?

 

[fuzz092888]

Nope you're good to go. Audyssey will just change it if you do it beforehand.

 

[KEW]

Nope you're good to go. Audyssey will just change it if you do it beforehand.

Thanks!
Right now, I did it "afterhand"
Do I then need to rerun Audyssey?

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks!
Right now, I did it "afterhand"
Do I then need to rerun Audyssey?

Nope, if you rerun Audyssey, you'll find yourself in exactly the same position changing the crossover all over again.

 

[KEW]

Thanks!

 

[fuzz092888]

No problem, enjoy it

 

[TLS Guy]

Why did you want to change the crossover point? One of the few things I have noted that Audyssey is good at, is finding optimal crossover points. I have found that Ausyssey in my two systems that have it found the exact crossover points that I designed.

It is not written in stone that 80 Hz is the optimal crossover point. I suspect for a lot, if not most 60 Hz is probably more optimal.

 

[herbu]

One of the few things I have noted that Audyssey is good at, is finding optimal crossover points. I have found that Ausyssey in my two systems that have it found the exact crossover points that I designed.

I have wondered, how steep is the cutoff at the crossover point within AVRs? Is it a sharp digital vertical slope, or is it an analog roll off?

So if the -3dB point of your speakers lower limit is 60Hz, would you set the crossover in your DVR at 60Hz? Maybe more toward 80Hz to catch it before the speaker roll-off begins? Maybe higher to take advantage of the upper range of your subs and relieve more of the burden from your speakers?

I know the real answer is, "Play with it and set it wherever sounds best to you". But how exactly does the AVR crossover work?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

80Hz XO is good. Just set it and don't even worry about it.

Nathan and Mark @ Funk Audio even like the XO to be set higher than 80Hz ----- like 100-120Hz.

I think I set my XO @ either 80Hz or 100Hz. I can't remember.

But really, when you try 60Hz vs 80Hz, you won't even notice any significant day-and-night difference.

 

[PENG]

I have wondered, how steep is the cutoff at the crossover point within AVRs? Is it a sharp digital vertical slope, or is it an analog roll off?

It follows a slope of X dB/Octave. What X is would probably depend on the manufacturer but THX certified ones would have to follow standards. I would assume non THX certified D&M products probably follow THX standards too.

 

[TLS Guy]

80Hz XO is good. Just set it and don't even worry about it.

Nathan and Mark @ Funk Audio even like the XO to be set higher than 80Hz ----- like 100-120Hz.

I think I set my XO @ either 80Hz or 100Hz. I can't remember.

But really, when you try 60Hz vs 80Hz, you won't even notice any significant day-and-night difference.

The crossover point depends on the design of the system and room interaction.

The crossover in the AV are analog. Low pass is 24db per octave above crossover, actually it will be 3db down where you set the crossover. The high pass is 12 db per octave.

So in a ported speaker roll off is 24 db per octave below F3, so if you add the AVR at F3 you get a combined acoustic plus electrical of 36 db per octave. A sealed speaker will roll off 12 db per octave below F3, and so the combined response id 24 db per octave.

So at least in theory the sealed speaker should have the best integration.

 

[KEW]

Why did you want to change the crossover point?

Reason 1) I am comparing two subwoofers to see which I prefer. I don't know for certain how I will use the subs in the future, so thought it a good idea to run them wider range (80Hz instead of 60).
Reason 2) For the comparison, I am using Pioneer BS-22's because I could get my hands on 4 of them (2 systems to allow A-B'ing). With the 4" woofer and Pioneer's published FR of 55-20kHz, 60Hz seemed to be stretching things. Now that I have pulled up a measured FR, I'm thinking I probably should move it all of the way to 100Hz. What do you think?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[KEW]

I have wondered, how steep is the cutoff at the crossover point within AVRs? Is it a sharp digital vertical slope, or is it an analog roll off?

From Gene's review of the Denon AVR-X5200W:

Bass Management
Denon has always had some of the most flexible bass management options of all the A/V receiver manufacturers and the AVR-X5200W proved to be no exception.



Denon AVR-X5200W Frequency Response with Bass Management Engaged

With all speakers set to small and an 80Hz crossover point, I measured the outputs and crossover slopes. With a standard “small” 80Hz setting for all channels, the high pass filter (HPF) for the satellite speakers maintained the correct 80Hz -3dB pt with a 12 dB/octave slope. The sub out did not maintain the 24dB/octave slope we’ve been accustomed to seeing with Denon A/V receivers and THX certified products in general. Instead, I measured --8dB at 80Hz with a 19dB/octave slope. I’m a bit at odds that the sub out is a little off, but this is not a THX product and the slight difference is likely inaudible for most installs and is academic.

 

[Acoustat]

In speaking with Brian at Rythmik, he was really pushing for me to cross at 60Hz
even though I wanted to go with 100-110Hz. He suggested that if I had to cross at
100Hz (80Hz was a marginal gray area to him in choosing driver size) that I not get a 15" driver
rather a smaller one, even the F8, but was leaning towards the 12.

I haven't really done any critical listening yet, but have enjoyed the XO at 80Hz on the mains so far
with the single F15HP. I have been able to play at normal SPL that normally would have discharged on my mains
during LFE and general, med. heavy bass.

Must you choose?

 

[TLS Guy]

Reason 1) I am comparing two subwoofers to see which I prefer. I don't know for certain how I will use the subs in the future, so thought it a good idea to run them wider range (80Hz instead of 60).
Reason 2) For the comparison, I am using Pioneer BS-22's because I could get my hands on 4 of them (2 systems to allow A-B'ing). With the 4" woofer and Pioneer's published FR of 55-20kHz, 60Hz seemed to be stretching things. Now that I have pulled up a measured FR, I'm thinking I probably should move it all of the way to 100Hz. What do you think?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker-measurements

Now I know what is going on, I agree with you. My dislike of high Q ported speakers is well known. It has a nasty peaked port output, which to me never sounds good. I would go to 100 or 120 Hz if you can. If you go to the 100 Hz range then the sub must be in proximity to the speaker, or you will localize it.