Center speaker for home cinema system, advice appreciated

[Freddie Day]

Hi guys this is my first post to the forum and would just like to say hello to all.

I was hoping that you could possibly help me me some advice on my set up

I currently own an Onkyo HT-X22HDX 2.1 system which has the whole Audio and 1080p Video Processing via HDMI, HD audio decoding all the dolby HD audio decoding etc. I'm very happy with this product however I would like to add onto it. Here is the specs of what it has:


- Combo subwoofer/AV receiver which has:

- FL/FR/C/SL/SR - 25 W/Ch (6 Ω, 1 kHz, 1%, 1 channel driven, IEC)

- Subwoofer:

- Is 50W (3 Ω, 100 Hz, 1%, 1 channel driven, IEC)
- Frequency response 35 Hz–200 Hz
- Impedance is 6Ω-16Ω
- 16cm cone.

- Front Speakers:

- Described as full range bass reflex speakers
- Max. Input Power: 40 W
- Output sound pressure level: 80 dB/W/m
- Frequency response: 70 Hz–20 kHz
- Impedence 6Ω
- 8cm cone.



Basically because of the configuration of my room I don't want to upgrade to 5.1 however I would like to add a center speaker. My two options are:

1. Buy the add on option which contains a center and two rear speakers to add to the set for £100, however I will only be using the center speaker. The center speaker has the same specs ans the front speakers.

2. Buy a different center speaker. I'm happy to spend up to £100 for a good speaker if its going to really make the difference.

So my question is really, what do you think would match the system best?

Kind regards,

Freddie

 

[3db]

If it looks like the pic below, you do have freedom in picking other speakers but I would advice against this for the following reasons;

1) The two front speakers and the center channel should be the same to achieve a cohesive sound stage with tonal shifts olccuring when sound pans across the three speakers.
2) This system is effectively an all in one system so its amplifiers are low power and aren't ideally suited to drive speakers with a different characteristic impedance.

I see the following options depending on how much money you want to spend.

1. look for a used version of these speakers
2. buy it new
3. start planning/saving for an AVR, speakers, and sub as separate pieces instead of an all in in 1 system. Separates give you much more flexibility.

 

[Freddie Day]

Thanks for your reply 3db.

Only thing is i don't want to buy 3 speakers for £100 when I am only going to use one.

You wouldn't recommend buying a better quality center speaker with the same ohms level, freq playback etc?

Also out of interest could I just buy 2 new front speakers and a center speaker from a good quality manufacturer like Polk or cambridge audio but keep the av receiver/sub? and if so how much would this upgrade cost?

 

[Freddie Day]

I would definitely be interested in beginning to upgrade slowly but my budget is the only issue (im not rich and cant just go out and buy a £500 receiver) I would like to be able to just upgrade my center speaker for now but if that wouldnt be ideal then i could fork out of getting two new front speakers and a center speaker but from having a quick look it appears a lot of speakers are at 8 Ohms and my system is 6 Ohms. Is this an issue?

 

[markw]

this is your system, no?

http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/htx-22hdx_manual_e.pdf

You COULD buy another speaker to use as a center channel speaker but, like 3D said, the front three should match. Good luck finding one that will match those toy speakers you're running now.

Also, you really don't have a lot of power to play with. Your options will be limited.

Sad to say, your best bet is saving up to get a "real" receiver and a "real" subwoofer.

 

[3db]

Thanks for your reply 3db.

Only thing is i don't want to buy 3 speakers for £100 when I am only going to use one.

You wouldn't recommend buying a better quality center speaker with the same ohms level, freq playback etc?

Also out of interest could I just buy 2 new front speakers and a center speaker from a good quality manufacturer like Polk or cambridge audio but keep the av receiver/sub? and if so how much would this upgrade cost?

You could buy 2 new front speakers and a center speaker from another manufacturer..maybe like these;

https://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Home/Andrew SP-BS22-LRSingle Sheet.pdf

The Pioneers may work in your set up based on a quick look at the specs. Please keep in mind though that all in one systems amplifiers are not very robust; ie you can't play them very loud before they start to compress and begin to damage the speakers. However, if your listening to low to moderate volumes, I think the Pioneers may work.

 

[Freddie Day]

this is your system, no?


You COULD buy another speaker to use as a center channel speaker but, like 3D said, the front three should match. Good luck finding one that will match those toy speakers you're running now.

Also, you really don't have a lot of power to play with. Your options will be limited.

Sad to say, your best bet is saving up to get a "real" receiver and a "real" subwoofer.

Yes thanks markw, I was fully expecting a response commenting on how my speakers are of a low superiority and are merely 'toys' and that I need 'real' equipment, however I am 21 years old and live a good life and my outgoings are pretty high which doesn't leave me thousands to spend on an audio system. 3 or 4 years ago I did my research and it fit my needs very well, however now I wish to upgrade but would like to do so gradually.

 

[Freddie Day]

You could buy 2 new front speakers and a center speaker from another manufacturer..maybe like these;



The Pioneers may work in your set up based on a quick look at the specs. Please keep in mind though that all in one systems amplifiers are not very robust; ie you can't play them very loud before they start to compress and begin to damage the speakers. However, if your listening to low to moderate volumes, I think the Pioneers may work.

Hey buddy thanks for your response, from what I have read if the speakers are higher ohms than the amp then they will be fine but just wont be as good as they would if you had an 8 ohm amp, whereas if you had an 8 ohm amp and 6 ohm speakers it can damage the speakers, is that correct?

So in theory I can buy any speakers above 6 ohms and they will be fine for now? (albeit not reaching their maximum performance)

From what I have seen a lot of speakers I've looked at seem to be 8 ohms so am I right in thinking it would be a good plan to buy 8 ohm speakers and then get an 8 ohm av receiver/amp when I can warrant spending the money on it? (I know nothing about receivers/Amps)

Also you said the center speaker needs to match the front and right speakers, what about the sub? Does the sub not matter as much because the low freq's are non directional and not particularly a matter of importance for now? (I will upgrade it in the future)

 

[markw]

Yes thanks markw, I was fully expecting a response commenting on how my speakers are of a low superiority and are merely 'toys' and that I need 'real' equipment, however I am 21 years old and live a good life and my outgoings are pretty high which doesn't leave me thousands to spend on an audio system. 3 or 4 years ago I did my research and it fit my needs very well, however now I wish to upgrade but would like to do so gradually.

You don't need to spend thousands. A decent starter system, particularly 3.1 could be accomplished for a few hundred dollars, well under a grand.

But, follow 3db advised and consider these speakers your first step towards a "real" system.

And, ther's no shame having an HTIB, as long as one realized it's inherent shortcomings.

 

[Freddie Day]

You don't need to spend thousands. A decent starter system, particularly 3.1 could be accomplished for a few hundred dollars, well under a grand.

But, follow 3db advised and consider these speakers your first step towards a "real" system.

And, ther's no shame having an HTIB, as long as one realized it's inherent shortcomings.

Ultimately, what I would like to aim for is a nice looking set of speakers like these (look good to me but let me know what you think)

- A couple of front speakers like this
-https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/sx/sx70

- And a center speaker like this
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/speakers/sx-60

Could I use my current av receiver/amp/sub combo with this? I understand that these Cambridge audio speakers have a good range so I could just turn the built in Onkyo sub right down?

I know they wont perform at their best because the amp isn't good enough but if you could point me towards a suitable amp that would be a better option I could consider this.

Thanks for your help,
Freddie

 

[markw]

Theoretically yes, but it will not sound good.

That subwoofer won't work with any other system, and that "receiver" (actually, a "front end") won't work with any other subwoofer.

And, those amps are showing, let's just say, "creatively inflated" numbers when they state it's power.

IOW, if you're lucky, it puts out the bare bones minimum power that the manufacturer recommends for those speakers to sound decent. Don't expect too much clean volume from them, particularly the center speaker.

You'll want to upgrade to receiver and a sub very shortly. If you state a budget and where you're located, I'm sure some reasonably priced suggestions will manifest themselves shortly.

 

[Seth=L]

I've not read the entire thread but I do wish to impart one thing here and it's this. This system is never going to be a loud system. As long as the OP manages expectations and sticks to satellite speakers of a matching order and decent quality that don't offset the internal amplifier's ability to drive them then they should be fine.

 

[Freddie Day]

OK thanks for your input guys but just to clear a few things up:

If I buy the Cambridge audio center and left/right speakers, will it sound any worse than the current Onkyo speakers because of the amp not being powerful enough?
The onkyo amp/receiver/sub box thing is 6 ohms and 25 W/Ch The Cambridge audio speakers are 8 ohms and the center requires between 10-100 watts and the left and right ones require 20-100 watts.

So will this amp damage the Cambridge audio speakers? and will they sound worse than the current 8cm cone satellite speakers?


This is the data sheet for what I currently have
http://www.uk.onkyo.com/downloads/1/1/9/6/2/ONKYO_HTX-22HDX_datasheet_EN.pdf

These are the speakers I would like to get
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/speakers/sx-60
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/sx/sx70


I know this is a first step, but first things first. If this set up will work then I will look into getting a suitable AV Receiver/Amp

Also whats your thoughts on Cambridge Audio?

If I buy these speakers it will cost £260. I live in England and i wouldn't want to pay much for the av/receiver. I'll be using it mostly for Xbox one playing games, watching HD movies and listening to music

Thanks for any input guys your experise is much appreciated!
Freddie

 

[3db]

Hey buddy thanks for your response, from what I have read if the speakers are higher ohms than the amp then they will be fine but just wont be as good as they would if you had an 8 ohm amp, whereas if you had an 8 ohm amp and 6 ohm speakers it can damage the speakers, is that correct?

Not quite. Generally, Low impedances are harder for an amp to drive because it pulls more current from the amp's power supplies. Excessive current draw plays havoc on maintaining rated output voltage causing the amps to clip. Clipping distorts the signal which causes speaker damage in the tweeters.

So in theory I can buy any speakers above 6 ohms and they will be fine for now? (albeit not reaching their maximum performance)

Almost. It depends on the sensitivity of the speaker. If the speakers are of low sensitivity, they will require to have a higher volume setting on the amp then a higher sensitivity speaker would at any given loudness level.

From what I have seen a lot of speakers I've looked at seem to be 8 ohms so am I right in thinking it would be a good plan to buy 8 ohm speakers and then get an 8 ohm av receiver/amp when I can warrant spending the money on it? (I know nothing about receivers/Amps)

Also you said the center speaker needs to match the front and right speakers, what about the sub? Does the sub not matter as much because the low freq's are non directional and not particularly a matter of importance for now? (I will upgrade it in the future)

Speakers impedance vary all over the map based on the frequency they are playing. A nominal 8 ohm speaker will have a majority of its impedance around the 8 ohm mark but will and can dip to 6 or 4 ohms depending on the frequencies its asked to reproduce. That's normal for speakers to do that. What I would look for in AVR is the ability to drive into 4 ohm loads based on your loudness levels you hope to achieve and in the size of room based with the speakers you choose to have. Thats why its so important to pick the speakers first, then the amplification afterwards.

The Cambridge speakers you are looking at would be easier to drive than the Pioneers I recommended. The Pioneers maybe cheaper but I'm not sure.

Just make sure there is a return policy on the speakers you buy just in case your not happy with the results.

 

[Freddie Day]

Hello mate thanks for your reply and advice again I really appreciate it however I'm still slightly confused.

So your saying a 6 ohm speaker is harder to drive and pulls more current from the amp than say an 8 ohm speaker and so the lower the number of ohms the more current from the amp and thus damage to the speaker?

And this is why the Cambridge speakers will be easier to drive than the Pioneers? (and also the standard Onkyo ones which are also 6 ohms??)

So there will be no negative effect from swapping the 6 ohm Onkyo speakers to the 8 ohm Cambridge speakers? (other than that the amp is substandard for them) but no damage will be done to the Cambridge speakers?

Could I please ask you to do a favor for me and just check the specs of the Onkyo amp and just reassure me it will be alright? I don't plan on playing them loud for now I just need to watch TV with them

http://www.uk.onkyo.com/downloads/1/1/9/6/2/ONKYO_HTX-22HDX_datasheet_EN.pdf

 

[Freddie Day]

Theoretically yes, but it will not sound good.

That subwoofer won't work with any other system, and that "receiver" (actually, a "front end") won't work with any other subwoofer.

And, those amps are showing, let's just say, "creatively inflated" numbers when they state it's power.

IOW, if you're lucky, it puts out the bare bones minimum power that the manufacturer recommends for those speakers to sound decent. Don't expect too much clean volume from them, particularly the center speaker.

You'll want to upgrade to receiver and a sub very shortly. If you state a budget and where you're located, I'm sure some reasonably priced suggestions will manifest themselves shortly.

I'm based in Cambridgeshire, England, and am now considering getting a receiver but whats put me off in the past is that they seem so expensive. How much would a good quality, long lasting AV receiver/Amp with 2 or 3 HDMI inputs and a HDMI output to my TV that does the whole HD codec Dolby decoding malarcky that I can set up 2 front speakers, a center speaker and a small sub that doesn't need to be anything special (fidelity and quality is preferred to loudness and power)

So what am i looking at which is affordable?

 

[markw]

Not being in England I don't know what's available for what price. In the states, reasonable starter receivers a]can be had for $200, give or take.

Please provide some links to some on-line retailers in your area and we'll see what's available for your budget.

BTW ,What IS your budget for a receiver. Once we know that, we'll see but keep in mind that some things aren't available in some price ranges. compromises may need be made.

But, off the top of my head, I'd say that Denon and Yamaha (among others) make decent stuff.

 

[3db]

Hello mate thanks for your reply and advice again I really appreciate it however I'm still slightly confused.

So your saying a 6 ohm speaker is harder to drive and pulls more current from the amp than say an 8 ohm speaker and so the lower the number of ohms the more current from the amp and thus damage to the speaker?

The lower the impedance, the harder it is to drive. There's not a big difference between 6 and 8 ohms and all decent receivers have no problems driving either. The speakers you are currently using are 6 ohms and are low sensitivity. Speaker damage may occur if you drive a receiver too hard...it can happen with even 8 ohm speakers but its harder to do than with 4 ohm speakers. Rule of thumb..never push your volume past the 1 0clcok position... rule of thumb...not a hard guideline. If the sound starts to distort earlier than that, that syour limit... if distorts past the 1 o'colcok position..thats the limit.

And this is why the Cambridge speakers will be easier to drive than the Pioneers? (and also the standard Onkyo ones which are also 6 ohms??)

That and Cambridge have higher sensitivity allowing you to play louder without straining the amp.

So there will be no negative effect from swapping the 6 ohm Onkyo speakers to the 8 ohm Cambridge speakers? (other than that the amp is substandard for them) but no damage will be done to the Cambridge speakers?

Could I please ask you to do a favor for me and just check the specs of the Onkyo amp and just reassure me it will be alright? I don't plan on playing them loud for now I just need to watch TV with them

http://www.uk.onkyo.com/downloads/1/1/9/6/2/ONKYO_HTX-22HDX_datasheet_EN.pdf

I think it will work as long as you aren't crazy with the volume button. I would still check on the return policy as well on the speakers. Its possible that the outcome of better sound isn't materializing like you had hoped for. Then you rout the money on the speakers unless you are using them as your first step into a more robust HT system.