Cary V12r in Mix Mode...

[Chazzy]

Does anyone have any experience on playing the Cary V12r in a mix of Tirode and UL?

The manual states that you should play the unit in one or the other mode but will you do any harm to the unit if you play it in mix mode?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Gosh, I don't even know what mix mode is.

I don't think there are many Cary Audio owners. I know ATI makes amps for Cary Audio, and that Cary has excellent HTM measurements, and they like the "minimalist" approach like Bryston (less features, more pure).

 

[slipperybidness]

This seems to be a tube amp and I think what he is getting at is that it has a switch on each channel to run in either pentode or triode mode. The only reason I could guess that you might want to try to run 1 channel pentode and one triode would be to compare the 2 settings, which wouldn't be an accurate comparison if you are listening to stereo material.

His best bet is to maybe get info from TLSguy.

Or, sign up on this forum and ask Bob Latino. I bet he would know as he is responsible for some of the best Dynaco clones. If you do that, please report back the response for us to have as future reference.
Free forum : The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum

 

[Chazzy]

Yes slipperybidness...there are a total of 6 swithches..3 for each channel..I had all 6 in Triode mode and then switch one on each channel to UL and the imaging seam to change for the better. I didn't leave it like that for long just because not sure if it would do any damage to the amp.

The manual states you should play it in one mode or the other but no big warning on damage if you dont.

I have an email out to tech support at Cary Audio but just wanted to know if anyone on here had any personal experience with it.

 

[fmw]

If I'm not mistaken, the KT-88 is a tetrode and was always my favorite power tube back in my audiophile days. It is a pretty clean animal and I doubt there is much to be gained by running it in triode mode other than, perhaps, some saving in electrical power and not much at that. I know audiophiles are enchanted with the triode but the KT-88 isn't really a triode so I would view this whole thing as mostly marketing. I can't think of a reason running different tubes in different modes would hurt anything other than perhaps the sound. I also don't believe amplifiers have anything to do with imaging. Speaker placement affects that. If running the amp a certain way appeals to you, I would say enjoy it. Personally, I would run them all in UL mode. You never know when a little extra headroom might come in handy. That should be about 2 cents worth of prose.

 

[lsiberian]

If I'm not mistaken, the KT-88 is a tetrode and was always my favorite power tube back in my audiophile days. It is a pretty clean animal and I doubt there is much to be gained by running it in triode mode other than, perhaps, some saving in electrical power and not much at that. I know audiophiles are enchanted with the triode but the KT-88 isn't really a triode so I would view this whole thing as mostly marketing. I can't think of a reason running different tubes in different modes would hurt anything other than perhaps the sound. I also don't believe amplifiers have anything to do with imaging. Speaker placement affects that. If running the amp a certain way appeals to you, I would say enjoy it. Personally, I would run them all in UL mode. You never know when a little extra headroom might come in handy. That should be about 2 cents worth of prose.

You really value your work don't you, but he said tirode which must be a special mode.

 

[Chazzy]

slipperybidness....Just an update:

I contacted Bob Latino like you suggested...Bob responded quickly and he really didn't think it would cause any harm but suggested I contact Cary for more info.

@fmw...I wouldnt have believed it myself if I didnt experience it, but these amps sound great in Triode depending on what you are listening to. The mids and highs are pretty amazing to me.

 

[slipperybidness]

slipperybidness....Just an update:

I contacted Bob Latino like you suggested...Bob responded quickly and he really didn't think it would cause any harm but suggested I contact Cary for more info.

@fmw...I wouldnt have believed it myself if I didnt experience it, but these amps sound great in Triode depending on what you are listening to. The mids and highs are pretty amazing to me.

I would think that it would depend on what you are listening to, how loud you like to listen, and what speakers you are using.

IIRC, I think the triode mode rolls off the extreme highs and lows but "sweetens" the mids (I could have that backwards with UL mode?).

So, some music (electronica, hip-hop) might not sound as good. By the same token, some brighter speakers might sound better due to the roll off on the high end.

I have an ST-70 built from a kit by Bob, it has the triode/pentode switches installed on it. It seems to me that I prefer a different mode depending on the style of music, and sometimes even depending on the recording. Next up for my ST-70 is to upgrade the speaker terminals so I have the option of either 8 or 4 ohm taps (as built, I just have the 8ohm taps wired up right now).

 

[Chazzy]

I agree 100 percent! Dont even think about playing hip-hip or electronica...but the right recording with say a Sarah Vaugn or a Louis Armstrong its quit nice. I have the Cary v12r, cary slp98p and Maggie 1.6s.

 

[fmw]

You really value your work don't you, but he said tirode which must be a special mode.

that's right. It is a mode which turns off 1/4 of the power tube. It becomes a tetrode running as a triode. Audiophiles have a special spot in their hearts for triodes.

 

[fmw]

slipperybidness....Just an update:

I contacted Bob Latino like you suggested...Bob responded quickly and he really didn't think it would cause any harm but suggested I contact Cary for more info.

@fmw...I wouldnt have believed it myself if I didnt experience it, but these amps sound great in Triode depending on what you are listening to. The mids and highs are pretty amazing to me.

If you like the triode mode, then use the triode mode. You're the one that has to be happy with it, not me.

 

[Chazzy]

I found this article from Stereophile that makes me think im not so crazy....wellll the judge is still out on if im really crazy or not but here is the link for your reading enjoyment on mix mode and the amp itself: Cary CAD-280SA V12 power amplifier | Stereophile.com

 

[TLS Guy]

I would think that it would depend on what you are listening to, how loud you like to listen, and what speakers you are using.

IIRC, I think the triode mode rolls off the extreme highs and lows but "sweetens" the mids (I could have that backwards with UL mode?).

So, some music (electronica, hip-hop) might not sound as good. By the same token, some brighter speakers might sound better due to the roll off on the high end.

I have an ST-70 built from a kit by Bob, it has the triode/pentode switches installed on it. It seems to me that I prefer a different mode depending on the style of music, and sometimes even depending on the recording. Next up for my ST-70 is to upgrade the speaker terminals so I have the option of either 8 or 4 ohm taps (as built, I just have the 8ohm taps wired up right now).

This is the whole issue isn't it? It is using tubes as very crude tone controls.

The KT 88 is a powerful tetrode and has been around from my youth. Two in push pull can just about crank out 50 watts per channel with acceptable distortion.

The screen grid can be connected to the anode anode, which makes it a triode, and it will deliver about 30 watts per channel. So then you can have your "sweet" second harmonic distortion at a lower output.

I gave up tubes in the early seventies and was glad to see the back of them. I want powerful amps with low distortion and no "funny religion."

Apart from superstition, there is absolutely no need to use a tube amp.

 

[slipperybidness]

This is the whole issue isn't it? It is using tubes as very crude tone controls.

The KT 88 is a powerful tetrode and has been around from my youth. Two in push pull can just about crank out 50 watts per channel with acceptable distortion.

The screen grid can be connected to the anode anode, which makes it a triode, and it will deliver about 30 watts per channel. So then you can have your "sweet" second harmonic distortion at a lower output.

I gave up tubes in the early seventies and was glad to see the back of them. I want powerful amps with low distortion and no "funny religion."

Apart from superstition, there is absolutely no need to use a tube amp.

TLS, the cynic.

Yeah, I know the limitations etc, etc. I can't argue with you about any of that.

But, you missed the point that I personally built the ST-70 from a kit. I'm sure that is something that you can appreciate, gaining experience and confidence on working on electronics. Also, tubes were long gone from main-stream before I was even born, so a tube amp carries some mystique that I never got to experience from my youth.

Next, it is quite fun to compare the ST-70 in pentode vs triode mode, with 4ohm vs 8ohm taps (once I install the upgrade), and with different speakers and as compared to powerful SS amps.

Finally, I just completed an analog synthesizer build too. It is quite fun to hook up an old-school tech synth to an old-school tech amp and see what kind of warm and fuzzy punchy basslines I can get out of it!

Yup, there is no NEED to use a tube amp, but that doesn't mean that there is no WANT to use a tube amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS, the cynic.

Yeah, I know the limitations etc, etc. I can't argue with you about any of that.

But, you missed the point that I personally built the ST-70 from a kit. I'm sure that is something that you can appreciate, gaining experience and confidence on working on electronics. Also, tubes were long gone from main-stream before I was even born, so a tube amp carries some mystique that I never got to experience from my youth.

Next, it is quite fun to compare the ST-70 in pentode vs triode mode, with 4ohm vs 8ohm taps (once I install the upgrade), and with different speakers and as compared to powerful SS amps.

Finally, I just completed an analog synthesizer build too. It is quite fun to hook up an old-school tech synth to an old-school tech amp and see what kind of warm and fuzzy punchy basslines I can get out of it!

Yup, there is no NEED to use a tube amp, but that doesn't mean that there is no WANT to use a tube amp.

I have no trouble identifying and agreeing with that point of view.

Every tube amp I ever owned except one was DIY and I learned a lot form the experience. I built tube tape preamps and other tube gear.

However there is a time to move on.

Your build of an ST 70 is a far cry from spending a lot of dollars on a Cary tube amp, which has pretty close to zero educational value and take funds that would be much better off placed in better speakers.

 

[Chazzy]

Ah...the stupid newbie...next time I will buy an SS.

 

[ski2xblack]

Ah...the stupid newbie...next time I will buy an SS.

Don't sweat it too hard, he means well but has a somewhat brutal pedagogic style. You should listen to what he has to say.

Get a SS amp to keep you honest if you must, but since you already own the Cary, enjoy it for what it is. You could always sell it and use the proceeds to get a Bob Latino ST-70 kit and a backup ss ATI. (Where's the devil horned smiley emoticon? Such enabling of audioholism, shame on me!)

 

[slipperybidness]

Don't sweat it too hard, he means well but has a somewhat brutal pedagogic style. You should listen to what he has to say.

Get a SS amp to keep you honest if you must, but since you already own the Cary, enjoy it for what it is. You could always sell it and use the proceeds to get a Bob Latino ST-70 kit and a backup ss ATI. (Where's the devil horned smiley emoticon? Such enabling of audioholism, shame on me!)

Now your talking. The best of both worlds.